Tuesday, October 02, 2007

The City of Light.

When I was in Italy last winter and spring- and where I’m going to be again soon- life was very different for me in several ways. I didn’t have internet and there’s no guarantee that I will have it this time. It wasn’t even easy finding an internet café and those were often little more than modem fueled. I could have been in Bangladesh and had a much easier time of it in that regard.

I was alone for five months in a secluded house purchased with just that in mind. Meditation became something much more focused and intense than it had been in the past. There were times when I found that I had been sitting for several hours without any labor or conflict. It was a wonderful period of time.

Some months into it, I began to experience something that was remarkable and satisfying in a way that few things I have ever encountered ‘here’ have managed to provide. I started to see into a location. In the past there have been lights and voices; even faces would appear but this time...

I find it very difficult to describe. That’s surprising given how much it resembled certain classic presentations. At one point I found myself grinning at the ‘almost cliché’ of the event. I found myself looking upward into a tunnel which extended across a vast distance. At times the distance seemed as great as that between our planet and the stars. At other times it had a rushing forward immediacy to it as if there were no great distance at all.

At the entrance to the tunnel were indefinable creatures of light that spiraled back toward the intense light of the far point which illuminated the whole affair. At each progression point along the tunnel there were different creatures, some stationary and some in movement. There was a beautiful symmetry to it all. At every place where a new difference emerged it was the same on all sides, even though there were no sides. Everything was symmetrical.

It was difficult to move forward into the tunnel. It required certain things on my part and it was all very much like holding quicksilver steady in the palm of the hand. When I could manage that for however long it occurred, I found myself immediately rushing forward. During these times I could see something of the center of it all and it was like the entrance to a large gated city. It was a city composed of light of varying densities and these densities expressed themselves in colors. On occasion I could come close enough to the gates of the city and see into it. There was a long boulevard that led to a high point in a fantastic landscape of shifting architecture that was going up and up by degrees. There seemed to be a high throne in the very center at the highest point and someone was sitting there surrounded by yet more beings. From the beginning of this tunnel to the center of that light, the surrounding creatures became increasingly more stationary.

At these points I sensed that everything went on forever; that I could come right up to this throne only to find that it had changed into something more that continued on and, no doubt, did the same again were I to be able to continue further on. I had the sense that all of this was actually ‘there’. It wasn’t the same as dreaming or musing; the way the mind takes shape according to thought and feeling.

Every time I found myself in this experience it was always the same. It happened frequently during periods of deeper meditation. Sometimes it was easier to travel and sometimes less so. The sounds that came out of it were... this is difficult; something like energies rubbing together and creating a massaging sensation of differing densities. It was intensely euphoric and can only be described as very similar to sexual intensities. Though that doesn’t cover it, it comes closer to that than anything else I can compare it to.

It was very clear that this was a city, a city composed of light. Backgrounds and objects and creatures were all perceivable due to variations in color and all of it was proceeding from the central point. Everything was an emanation, a projection from the central core.

I noticed that sometimes it would look western and sometimes it would look eastern and it occurred to me that it really depended on the inclination of the one perceiving it. Everything was changing all of the time but it always changed according to the same manner, like a kaleidoscope. Forms turned into other forms and then back again. It was the light that made it possible. Nothing could have been seen without the light and the light was the origin of the forms as well; the same way that white light is the source of all of the colors emerging from the prism.

It’s interesting to note that as the frequency of sound intensifies it turns into other things. Much could be learned by studying what happens when frequency intensifies. This might be of interest to those so inclined ...I’m fascinated by electro-magnetism. I consider this to be a potential source for immense energy and technologies beyond the scope of the present day.

All one needs to know about how the spiritual realm is personalized by our subjective impressions can be found beautifully delineated in James’ “The Varieties of Religious Experience.” or the works of that great Indian sage, RamaKrishna who experienced enlightenment in every religious formula and declared them all the same. It’s all the same place though it contains a Gormenghast collection of rooms. “In my Father’s house are many mansions. If it were not true I would not have told you so.” One might also find food for thought in Bucke’s “Cosmic Consciousness” and Avalon’s “The Serpent Power”

One of the primary characteristics of Love- pure love- is expansiveness. The same can be said about light. Love and light have a great deal in common. We have been the beneficiary of light-bringers who have appeared here on occasion. We have also hosted and presently host, bringers of darkness.

It’s not easy to find the light or to feel the love in this time. It is never an easy affair until one has passed beyond the magnetic pull of the manifest. But these days it is more difficult than it has been. The clamor is at a high intensity. The impetus to project outward through the senses is awesome. The further outward one journeys, the greater is the distance from one’s own heart. There are those for whom this consideration is non-existent and they wax with a terrible insistence from the court of temporal power.

It’s my conviction that the essence of all of the divine scriptures is written on the human heart, just as all forms are differentiated and held together by a magical, vibrating language of fiery hieroglyphs. We need to proceed inward to advantage ourselves of the tranquil wonderland of our true nature. At the same time, everything outside of us is promising that this elusive state can be had in each one of the shifting and impermanent forms that are fashioned by the cookie cutter mind and displayed on the endless conveyor belt of time. It’s all heroin-sugar.

It seems to me that there must be some urgent need to strive or surrender. Why would such a powerful magic show be taking place for our single and collective attention if not to distract us from something else? It’s both scary and exciting at the same time. It is daunting too and despair-making when we see the relentless necessity of that single purpose.

It’s ironic that the city I live near is nicknamed La Citti Bianca- The White City. The old town is an extraordinary place to wander through. In the winter there are few people and there is a profound sense of peace there. I haven’t experienced this in many other places and certainly never in an urban setting. The new part of the city is filled with bad architecture and lots of noise that is typically Italian.

I know that if you care enough to press on you will find this city... the other city. It’s only a matter of how badly you want to or how comfortable you may be here. Of course, ‘here’ as it appears now will be gone and you as well. Given that you must eventually journey somewhere, it stands to reason that it would be helpful to have your papers in order before you go; metaphorically speaking. It stands to reason that you would want to make contact with whomever awaits beyond. Don’t let either the world or your fear of the unknown be a hindrance given what unspeakable marvels await.

Visible sings: Almost A Capella by Les Visible♫ Light Up Ahead ♫
'Light Up Ahead' is track no. 1 of 12 on Visible's 2007 album 'Almost A Capella'

Almost A Capella by Les Visible

66 comments:

Anonymous said...

It's interesting that you mention fear in the last sentence. I've had very good meditations the past week or two. I've been very strict about getting a meditation in every day. I have alot going on right now and there are quite a few things requiring my attention externally. When I go through these periods I am adamant about meditating regularly to stay centered and not get too caught up "out there". In my meditation last night towards the end I was compelled to pose the question "What am I?".

It wasn't a verbal asking just more of an attitude or feeling of asking intensely. The meditation was deep. Certain bodily sensations became more pronounced and I felt like I was about to get an answer to my question. I felt a strong presence of something or someone else. A strange feeling over came me and I felt like something significant was about to happen but there was an underlying fear that prevented it. Not a big deal though. I have a feeling I can go back there when I'm ready.

Ben

(PS I hope you find an internet connection in Italy)

Anonymous said...

Les,

I'm probably going to be checking in on your blogs more regularly again now that I'm getting back up and dusting myself off from life's latest kick in the nuts. More on that in a moment, but first...

You wrote:
"We have been the beneficiary of light-bringers who have appeared here on occasion. We have also hosted and presently host, bringers of darkness.

It’s not easy to find the light or to feel the love in this time. It is never an easy affair until one has passed beyond the magnetic pull of the manifest."


The primary difference between Light and Dark, as I have experienced them, is that whereas seekers of Light are not prone to gather in large groups, surrender their individual thought, and try to foist a sheep-like groupthink idea of "lightness" on others (making you see "MY Light" instead of living "THE Light"), they do possess an ability to band together in times of great need or danger for protection against just such a tendency. When I think about those who seek Love and Light, I imagine a crowd of people all helping give each other a boost over some difficult wall, metaphoric or literal.

Those in the Dark, whether seeking it intentionally from some perverse notion of self-importance or merely stumbling into it from not paying close enough attention (by far the more common route), tend towards the opposite approach. They readily gather in large groups, surrender individual thought (and it's attendant Reason), and can't help proselytizing (or if necessary force-feed) everyone else about their own favorite flavor of bitter Kool-Aid.

Then there's all the poor bastards caught in the middle. The "mindless gray masses," or the "firewood" as I've heard them called.

When those living separate from God, which is the very definition of Darkness, face threats and peril their cohesion is lost. Just as Light gathers and protects, Darkness scatters and exposes. This is why Darkness always eventually fails; everyone a part of it must watch their backs constantly, since a knife could arrive at any moment... and someday will. When I think about those trapped in Shadow, I imagine a crowd of people secretly trying to find a way over the Wall just for themselves and using the bodies of those they have stabbed in the back for stairs. Of course, eventually they all become part of the Staircase to Nowhere. Those just beginning this path would do well to look down and notice what they're walking on, and maybe reconsider the route.

Along these lines, two of my friends fell in the Dark recently. One was a punk kid I thought had potential, and I'd trained him as a whitewater river guide when he was 18. Whitewater and mycology are my passions, and both teach me everything I need to know about Life. Anyhow, on his 24th birthday (Sept. 11th, no less) he mixed whiskey, vicodin, and methadone, and any old junkie can tell you how fatal that combo can be; you go to sleep and just forget to keep breathing. I've been away from the river scene a few years, but go back often, and last saw him over Labor Day. So it goes.

My other friend, a 35 year old mother of two (also a former river guide), somehow got stranded in Hell by herself, and let us all know by pouring gasoline over herself and igniting it. She lived for two weeks afterwards. Their deaths were 4 days apart. I just keep wondering what trial of life is harder or more terrifying than self-immolation?

I tried to Google specific info to find any news articles that may have been written about her suicide, and was shocked to discover how widespread and common it has become recently for young women to set themselves on fire, worldwide. Mostly in Afghanistan, Pakistan, and other places where women are severely oppressed, they are protesting in the only way they think they can.

All this has a point, which is: the Light must gather. Now. Assume that no one knows you love them until you tell them directly; I'm pretty sure my friends love me, but I know how I feel when I hear them actually say it, and that feeling can carry me through the very dark nights that we all face sometimes. The burning women of the world must feel very alone indeed, though I'm sure they were loved by someone- did they know it? We let our mortgages and car payments and all the external distractions overwelm us to what really matters, and the consequences are dire indeed. I made my house payment while one of my friends was roasting alive.

I was happiest living in a tent in the bushes by the river, chopping wood and carrying water from a spring every morning, surrounded by my friends, my Tribe. I was most miserable living in an 11,000 square foot mansion with a 6-car garage and tennis court. Right now I'm somewhere in the middle. The constantly repeating lesson is obvious: Love and Light and people matter, the rest doesn't. Simple. Isn't it? Of course! And we'll talk about your suicidal depression right after an important business meeting I have to go to this morning...

And Les, last night was the first I'd seen of several responses you'd made to my posts, like one from Reflections in a Petri Dish about starting a new blog and such (which sounds good to me)... I wasn't blowing ya off or anything, just not in the mood to turn on my computer much lately.

I'll be in touch.

All Good Medicine,

The Village Idiot

Anonymous said...

Les, I'm new to your blogs and think you are a brillant writer. Your meditation experience reminded me of Stuart Wilde's transdimensional world by the misty lake of Avalon. He describes this world as a "multi-dimensional celestial world with a fairytale dimension of mythical beings, except it's not a myth." Thought I'd share this article. Great minds travel on the same beam.

The New Dignity
Stuart Wilde
September, 2007



In a world that is degrading in its moral standards, decency, and in
the treatment of others, we seek to discover a new dignity, not a
pomposity, or a grand, vain glorious stance, but a silent composure that
speaks of one that is well-versed in his or her understanding of the eternal
Tao and the way energy ebbs and flows; a person who's life is drawn in
the parameters of an unspoken elegance of being.

I spoke in the recent article on the absence of malice on how if one
seeks to achieve real composure one has to detach from the insidious
nature of the mind that protests every little setback and takes up the
cudgel of indignation for every injustice, while simultaneously seeing
humanity as inferior beings, steeped in evil.

That White Knight syndrome is
part of the white shadow I speak of in the Visions event. Your white
shadow is hard to see as it looks pure and worthwhile but often it is
nothing more than our fake Mr. Nice Guy, Mrs. Trying-To-Be-Perfect,
saviour-of-humanity pretence.

We can't save the world, we don't have the spiritual purity, and "yes"
humanity is often evil and we have to allow that to be as it is. To
fight evil is to wrestle in the dimensions where evil exists, locked in
there so as to never leave. I have a PhD in tussling with the ghouls, and
while it was a useful lesson, in the end you must let them have their
world and we'll keep to the mystical Tao and our world.

To arrive in the transdimensional world of the misty lake of Avalon,
you have to be finished with the affairs of man and the struggles of
light and dark, blame and recrimination; you have to step instead into the
magical world of the Aluna animals that can think and act in magical
ways that react to love and soft emotions; animals that work tirelessly
to bring about the Renewal that awaits up ahead.

It is a fairytale dimension of mythical beings except it is not a myth,
it is real, and it is here right now, in our solid reality for you to
stumble upon. Theirs is a real world just as our world is real, and the
lake is at a real location, just a mile so up and over the little
green hill that stands in the lands behind the pub, and the Camelot arches
that are placed in the forests, and in other places (some are in
cities), are also real to see.

The multi-dimensional celestial world has
gradually threaded its way into our world like the fingers of God
interlocking with the fingers of our frail human hand, weaving the speckled
ambience of the Aluna through our soul.

To arrive implies a journey that anyone can take, like a taxi ride from
the railway station, but to understand it properly you have to
substitute the words "the same as"instead of the verb to arrive. So to arrive
at the Camelot arches you have to be "the same as" the arches. To see a
hundred stags from the Aluna shoulder-to-shoulder on the shores of a
moonlit lake, you have to be "the same as" a hundred stags with the same
silent majesty, the same power and profound dignity and serenity.

To
see the Lion of Judah face-face-face inches from your nose so you can
even feel its breath on your skin, you have to have the same courage and
bravery, the same agility, the same endurance as the lion.

With a new dignity you shift your mind from travelling towards where
you might want to go and striving endlessly to get there, to becoming
instead, "the same as" the place you would like to find yourself in. It is
an ambient resonance in your heart not a "residence" that is
established by arriving someplace.

It is very subtle.

The bearing of decorum and serenity we hope for takes a while to
achieve but we have time, and the grace I speak of is an outcropping of a
silent, spiritual nobility that seeks little for itself, that is settled
and neutral towards all things, towards all matters as they arise; it is
the settled heart that so few possess.

The human that does not rush
about hither and thither, or raise their voice, or act coarsely; he or
she that does not need to exert them self in the company of others, they
are the one that can listen without speaking that is happy to take the
last place, happy to wait through all eternity if needs be.

It's the
heart that beats in time with all the collective hearts of
multi-dimensional hyper-space, both human and non-human, rather than the solitary
human heart that beats only to its desires.

The settled heart spreads out far and wide for it has few needs that it
can not provide for itself, so that gives it a selfless decency, an
intrinsic width that you could describe as the breadth of the person's
etheric field (its sideways motion) and that width carries it naturally
outwards towards the celestial, which you already know follows the same
sideways path or direction of the transverse wave of light that is
placed at 90° sideways to the normal path of light.

The narrow mind
installs a constrained, tight energy around a human that travels nowhere, in
fact, it attempts to sucks energy from others to sustain itself. To
radiate silently is dignified, to pillage is not so.

Certainly, we have to pay rent, raise children, arrive at work on time,
but we must learn to do all these things without falling off balance
and losing ourselves and our dignity in the struggle; walking slowly and
deliberately through life in a calm and centered way with as much
grace and dignity as possible, we arrive without moving very far, if at
all.

It is undignified to lean into people demanding things, or to struggle
to win their affection and acceptance, or to fight to get them to act
in certain ways that they are often incapable of doing. Struggling will
drag you down. So you smile on them and their weaknesses and you laud
their every success while praying for their good fortune and wellbeing.

That is why it is important to walk by the banks of the rivers of the
Tao as the sages of old would say, and to be sustained and taught by
that, and to have all your desires tempered, so in your clarity and
simplicity you lack for nothing, as there is nothing much you want.

The dignity I speak of is not hard to achieve but you have to let go.
You fought the good fight and you marched under the blood-red banners of
your emotions and indignations, and you shunned evil often reacting to
it, not realizing perhaps that you were only ever looking at an outer
manifestation of yourself and your darkness.

What justice do we really seek? What pleasure will a hollow victory or
vengeance over evil really offer? To struggle to be better than the
hopelessly weak, or the indolent, or to be more handsome than the gnarly,
narcissistic face of humanity, is of no great achievement.
Squeaky-clean is irritating, like fingernails grating on a blackboard, and anyway
the pretence of it serves no purpose for none of us is spiritually ever
much more than various shades of dull grey, and anyway the
'squeak-squeak' of squeaky-clean are like hungry mice scurrying along the skirting
boards of your sentiments and aspirations, keeping you awake at night
judging yourself and worrying.

Let the banner of your protest drop from your blistered hand so you
will have two arms free with which to embrace humanity, and allow the new
dignity to carry you beyond the world of the mundane, justice and
injustice, and the vicissitudes of a poorly understood karma. For in the end
the only triumph is to return home, and the animals and the eternal
Tao are the points of the compass we use to guide us to the resonance of
that safe return, for the Tao is woven into the souls of the animals,
and without the souls of animals to guide us one cannot arrive at the
celestial for they are the keepers of the kingdom of God.

Sincerely, Stuart

© Stuart Wilde 2007

GodSend said...

"No one comes to the Father except through Me" (Jesus the Christ).

The Father (God) IS Light, Love, Spirit and Holy.

What is the question?

If Christ is not in a City of Light, then Lucifer IS!

Anonymous said...

I thought Lucifer was in a big underground fire pit??

Ben

Anonymous said...

The question is:
Have you learnt anything here yet godsend?
Tony

GodSend said...

The City of Light:

"The city had no need of the sun or of the moon to shine in it, for the glory of God illuminated it. The Lamb is its light. And the nations of those who are saved shall walk in its light, and the kings of the earth bring their glory and honor into it. Its gates shall not be shut at all by day (there shall be no night there). And they shall bring the glory and the honor of the nations into it. But there shall by no means enter it anything that defiles, or causes an abomination or a lie, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life." (Revelation)

PS "The Lamb" is Jesus the Christ! Is your name written in the Lamb's Book of Life?

Anonymous said...

Well, Stuart is on to something. I do have a few questions I'd like to ask him, though.

Once achieved, how does one maintain this composure, this embrace of all humanty, in the face of events that dictate actions contrary to it? Doors are kicked open, gunfire erupts, women are raped, men disappear, and millions go hungry. Turning back such a tide is no "hollow" victory, at least to me in my pre-enligtened state.

What implies that contending with evil is really a desire to "save the world?" Those I know, including myself, who have contended with evil, both in flesh and spirit, did not seek it out, rather it imposed itself into our otherwise serene reality tunnels. If evil has its own world and we ours, why do we ever cross paths? Someone is trespassing, it appears. All I want to do is persuade evil to go home, and although saving the world would be great, I'd be quite satisfied with saving my brothers and sisters and friends and some wilderness.

I had a problem with that part of the article, obviously, and having "...a PhD in tussling with the ghouls" is a bold claim (I assume the author is over 100 years old?); I myself probably have the equivalent of a GED in the subject, but a Master's in tussling with physical beings. I've noticed that they call for slightly different strategies and tactics.

So, my problem is this: When someone quiets their voice and ceases to contend with evil or protest its plans for expansion, it is sometimes the case that evil retreats and serenity continues, seemingly vindicating this cosmology. Well, when that happens it is also usually because other people tussled in the physical and drove evil back against its will. The whole situation presented here makes me think of the peculiar notion of a steadfast pacifist who calls the police when a burglar enters their home. The officer may shoot and kill that burglar, but the peaceful homeowner might feel their hands are clean, as if they hadn't merely subcontracted the dirty work. Sometimes Love has blood on its hands, albeit reluctantly.

If my body and this world are illusions as many Wise Asses claim (and I more or less agree with), then I am apparently firmly trapped in it, and so must respond in an equally illusory way. Mainly, that is because my own salvation and continued existence is a priority secondary to the safety and existence of the people I care about. As long as they or I still breathe, I will not be "finished with the affairs of Man."

I agree that there are realms beyond all manifestations of Evil, and I have glimpsed them personally, but this world ain't one of them.

I make no claims of righteousness, I'm no White Knight, I have no interest in "squeaky clean," and I seek no vengeance. I just want my tribe to be left alone, and I mean it. Stuart seems to be sticking his head in the sand and letting others do the physical, disagreeable stuff while he enjoys the benefits.

And you gotta love the little "copyright" icon, like an ironic cherry on top of a comfort-food verbal sundae.

Apologies in advance,

-The Village Idiot Again

P.S.: Godsend, You pointed out that "No one comes to the Father except through... Jesus the Christ." So the question is, whose Jesus?

GodSend said...

P.S.: Godsend, You pointed out that "No one comes to the Father except through... Jesus the Christ." So the question is, whose Jesus?

Question from the self-proclaimed Village Idiot. Nuff said! ;)

Les, stop censoring by posts! Do you have anything against Holy Scripture?

GodSend said...

No, not that one, Les - the one with the quote from Revelation about the City of Light! ;)

Anonymous said...

May I answer this Les?
godsend, Holy Scripture isn't.
Men wrote all the scriptures!!
Besides, I detect no love in any of your replies. Sorry, you are definitely not who you present.
Tony

GodSend said...

Thanks! :)

GodSend said...

Hey, Tony matey,

What makes you an expert on Holy Scripture?

Ever hear of 'tough love'? You SEE!, contrary to what you and many other people believe, God requires obedience to His Word 1st. Love comes later. His Word (Holy Scripture) is the inspired Word of God. Men may have moved some pens but God moved their hearts before they wrote down the words. Are you really as dumb as you write? Read Holy Scripture and become inspired by God's Word! - THEN write ;)

"The Word of God is living and powerful"

First and foremost, Christ suffered and died on the Cross in obedience to His Father. THAT IS LOVE!

Your 'love' is some weird notion of being 'nice' and saying 'nice' things and God-only-knows what else. You need to grow up - spiritually! Pray to God for understanding. Step #1: Get on your knees before Him and beg for forgiveness for your insolence and disobedience.

Anonymous said...

So Godsend, What Would Jesus Write? Would he call people "dumb?" Would he take the "village idiot" bait hook, line and sinker, as you did?

I think not. Who then do you represent? Who's Jesus? WHOSE Jesus?

-The Illage Vidiot

GodSend said...

From T. Austin-Sparks:

Paul said: "The natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: ...he cannot know them" (1 Corinthians 2:14). Their eyes being holden was an act of God, and their eyes being opened was an act of God.

Paul prayed for the Ephesians: "That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you a spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him; having the eyes of your heart enlightened" (Ephesians 1:17,18). If all those Ephesian believers, who had had all Paul's teaching, needed a spirit of revelation, surely we do! It is an act of God whenever we really do see the Lord Jesus.

But, again, it was an act of grace. These men had forsaken the Lord Jesus in the hour of His trial, and they were men who were of an unbelieving heart. Jesus said to them: "O foolish men, and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken!", but grace overcame all their failure and all their sin. Their eyes were opened by the grace of God. We do not have to be perfect Christians in order to see the Lord.

If it was an act of God and an act of grace, it was also an act of Divine power - and that act makes all the difference. The fire was burning very low before He opened their eyes, but when they were opened, the fire was rekindled. They had said to Him: 'Come in and abide, for the day is far spent and it is dangerous to be on the road.' When their eyes were opened, the night was turned into day. It is no longer dangerous to be on the road when you have your eyes opened! It is a wonderful thing to have our spiritual eyes opened.

Let us all pray every day that we shall not only hear the Scriptures expounded, but that a great act of God shall be done in us whereby our spiritual eyes are opened to see and know the Lord.

Anonymous said...

Godsend -

What makes you an expert on holy scripture?

Are you really as dumb as you write?

You need to grow up - spiritually!

Pray to God for understanding.

Ben

GodSend said...

The topic is Les' vision of the City of Light.

I shed some light on his vision by pointing out that the true City of Light (the New Jerusalem) receives its light from the Son of God, Jesus the Christ - He IS Light. Any other light is of Luciferian origin.

I am not the topic of discussion here. Concentrate on the message, not the messenger. My complete message can be found at:

http://novalight.org

As for you, Ben (I assume that your real name is Benjamin, a nice Torah name), you are most probably either a Jew or a Zionist (Satanist). In either case, you are an anti-Christ! Do you have plenty of anti-Christ company here? You betcha!

I'm here to tell you (everyone) that unless you place Christ at the center of The Puzzle of humanity's existence and purpose (which includes YOUR life and eternal destiny), you are barking up the wrong tree. All your words are nothing but meaningless bow-wow.

Everyone needs a properly authorized passport to enter the City of Light. Only Jesus the Christ can validate your passport! As Les said, better get your papers in order.

Anonymous said...

godsend, have you learnt anything here yet?
If you had read here, and learnt, you wouldn't be doing all of your scriptural writing and quoting from obscure writers.
You read but do not see.
You see and do not comprehend.
You comprehend but ignore.
You ignore at your pleasure.
At your pleasure will destroy you.
If destroyed, you are destroyed forever.
'It is no longer dangerous to be on the road when you have your eyes opened!'
Tony

Visible said...

I've been out of town playing music for a few days and I haven't had the opportunity to chime in here; all I've seen- since I just got back- is your comment.

I like having a spirited dialogue here. I think it is healthy. But now you are getting into an area that I'm not fond of. When you start comparing people to Satan and Lucifer... and I might add, my perception of you indicates that you have zero idea who Lucifer is or how he serves God and he certainly does; Devil transformed into an angel of light and all that well... it sort of bothers me a bit.

Ben is a sweetheart and a true lover of God. He's one of the good guys and a brilliant mind that has yet to find it's medium of discourse- but it will.

You're welcome to sling scripture at us as if you worked in God's hash-house (you want fries with that?) but be advised... everyone here loves the Lord Jesus Christ more than you might think. We love all of God's manifestations as he chooses to make them.

You can go on getting all Savonarola on our asses but it isn't going to stop the celebration of light. It just isn't. And you might want to think about whether you are, in fact, not serving the very force you accuse us of representing. You might want to think about that.

Visible said...

Village Idiot; thank you for that. I also thought the commentary was wonderful in the sense of the ideal but we can't all be arhats sitting as pillars of light around the column of eternal splendor when we are faced with certain realities in the day to day. Sometimes God needs warriors and those warriors are not the True Believers from that great book that echos what Neitzche said about those pursuing monsters should be careful they don't become one. Sometimes it is a different thing. I would love to sit by the banks of the river of the cat in that short story at the end of Magister Ludi. And I would love it if I didn't get buried in Mozart's grave but I find that we, as players here have to sometimes play a part.

I think it is all well and good that we can be as inscrutable as the Buddha; should we be the Buddha or as flippant as Krishna as he toys with Arjuna but we are people in a human mix and this is a war; whether it be a war of shadows and whether we are watching a film on the wall of Plato's cave doesn't matter. What matters is that we tried to bless and heal humanity and that we did, sometimes, stand up to the shadow and declare it such.

I don't have that much use for opinions that aren't lived in the face of people that have to live them. I didn't choose to be caught in a net where I can see every strand of the thing holding me and still have to cry out against it.

When I am a Buddha I will be a Buddha. But while I am a Bodhisattava in traininig I will be that; nothing less and nothing more.

GodSend said...

Les:

I've thought about it (many times).

"No one comes to the Father except through Me"

That is a very simple promise with unambiguous meaning (no matter what you or your wonderful buddy Ben might think or wish). It's intentionally unambiguous - lest anyone claim that God is the author of confusion!

No matter how much anyone squirms and claims how connected they are to God, it's self-deception. You CANNOT be connected to God unless you're also connected to Christ!

"I and the Father are ONE"

You MUST come to His Cross to be connected to Him.

There is only ONE Person in the entire history of the world who did and said what Christ did and said. He was not a liar.

Take Him (eternal Life) - or leave Him (eternal Death). That's the choice. That's the Gospel.

When the music stops and you go to your last gig, will your passport be validated?

I've delivered the message I was sent to deliver. Heed it!

Anonymous said...

Godsend -

Jesus was a jew. I guess he was an anti-Christ too?

Are you really as dumb as you write?

You need to grow up - spiritually!

Pray to God for understanding.

Ben

(You make me laugh.)

Anonymous said...

Just a general question (not just to Godesend)... And I know this is an odd question but I haven't read the Bible in quite awhile. But did Jesus ever actually say that he was dying on the cross for anyone's sins?

Ben

Anonymous said...

Didn't Jesus 'die on the cross' because that was one method of capital punishment of the day. He was accused by the religious Jews (the legalistic Pharisees) of the day of blasphemy, identifying himself with God and saying he was the king of Israel, put through a Roman kangaroo court and crucified?
The Romans, of course, carried out the act of crucifixion.
And then the scribes wrote:
‘For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.’
Tony

Visible said...

New essay here-

http://zippittydodah.blogspot.com/

GodSend said...

Hey, Tony matey (and Benjamin):

You 2 marvels need to educate yourselves about what Jesus the Christ said (for starters) - and THEN comment here. So, off you go to:

http://www.biblegateway.com/

and JUST DO IT!

Or, get a red letter Bible and read just the red letters, for starters. It will be an eye-opener! :)

You'll then know all about what Christ said, why He died on the Cross and, most importantly, how that affects YOU (and what YOU have to do about it!) ;)

The mysteries of the Heart, the Light, the Life and the Way will all be explained and you'll be jumping for joy! (You too, Les!)

The rest of you here, it can't hurt for you to join the fun! :)

annemarie, are you listening???

Anonymous said...

Tony -

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."

I'm familiar with this line but it still doesn't really say anything about Jesus dying on the cross to save man from sin. The whole basis of fundamentalist Christianity is that Christ died on the cross for man's sins; he paid the price on man's behalf. Without that act the souls of mankind would be condemned to hell.

My question is - and forgive me if it's a dumb sounding question - does it actually say any of that in the Bible?

Ben

Anonymous said...

No, nothing!
No 'jesus died sins' at all
'forgive sins' Yes
Here's another one (from my grandmother) 'There are none so blind as those who will not see'
Tony

Anonymous said...

Godsend -

Thanks for the recommendation but save me some footwork here and just tell me which verses have Jesus (or anyone else) stating that Jesus died on the cross to "save souls" from hell. I'm not saying it's not in there, it's just an honest question. This is the cornerstone of the faith and my request should be an easy one.

Ben

Anonymous said...

ps. I think it's implied Ben.
Tony

Anonymous said...

Tony -

I get that it's implied but it's only implied if you know the 'story' (as it's written by church doctrine). And the folks that make this argument are literalists and I'm questioning whether or not this fundamental belief is 'literally' or even semi-literally stated in the Bible.

Ben

Anonymous said...

The 'fundies' love all of this tripe Ben.
They love the cross, the sword in the side, the thought that Gods Son died just for them. Whoa!
I'm feeling light headed.
They love it that a deity thinks that they are so important. No one else loves me - God does!
My granddaughter has imaginary friends too.
Mind you they don't love it that they are told specifically not to hold religious images in high esteem. No, no, no!
Then the marketing goes out the door.
Tony

Anonymous said...

For some reason I find it hard to imagine Jesus being a fundie. I just can't see him having anything in common with these blowhards who get an erection at the thought of millions of "unsaved" heathens burning eternally in hell. It's really a nauseating doctrine when it comes down to it.

Ben

Anonymous said...

Exactly. There's no light in 'You will all perish!'

Anonymous said...

To me, the biggest clue that what once might have been a complete and worthwhile cosmology has been edited by decidedly materialistic people is the conspicuous absence of the Sacred Feminine (I refer to the early Catholic Church who originally, and selectively, compiled the Bible).

It's also interesting that when missionaries "missionized" the indigenous population of the Americas, Mary was elevated to near if not actual parity with Jesus, a view that persists to this day despite attempts to de-emphasize her. After all, the claim is made that Jesus is from the line of David (who begat begat begat all the way to Joseph), but if Jesus was born to Mary of an Immaculate Conception, how is it possible that Jesus was a descendant of David?? Was she covering up an affair with the milkman? [See the answer next week on CSI: Bethlehem...]

Just enough was edited or removed to give it all a patriarchal slant, with women bumped into second place and expected to do what they were told. Hopefully we are leaving that stage behind, permanently.

Anyhow, it all comes together to create a context within which a small group of men possessed special dispensation from God (the clergy), that God would express HIS will through a human intermediary (HE spoke directly to the Pope), that the Pope would graciously tell us all what God wanted, and that the rest of us must surely obey without question.

I personally cannot believe that the Creator of this Universe would install a corporate-style administrative staff between HIMself and humanity, that it would exclude HALF of said humanity, and that God would make HIS staff wear such funny hats (these are not issues confined only to the Catholic Church, of course).

However, it does make for a convenient situation for feudal lords or Kings and Church officials; the peasants are much more docile when they believe their suffering will be rewarded after they're dead, and dominance over women makes getting laid easier as none of the pesky emotional maturity required of an equal partnership need be developed, not to mention the level of social control made possible by the ensuing guilt burdens. This is probably why Protestantism and all the subsequent ism-schisms chose to retain those "values."

People are growing increasingly tired of that old paradigm, evidenced by the unexpected huge success of "The Da Vinci Code," which I believe was due more to the novel idea of a feminine equal of Jesus than all the conspiratorial secret-society drama.

There might have been a point in there somewhere, but I forget what it was supposed to be... sorry!

-The Village idiot

Anonymous said...

Village Idiot -

What a great analysis that was. There's just something fundamentally wrong with the fundamentalist interpretation of Christianity. And I'm amazed at how people downplay the selection/editing that went into compiling the Bible and the parties involved in doing it. Alterior motives??? Gee! No way!

Ben

GodSend said...

Ben,

I'm not interested in saving you 'footwork'. I gave you an honest answer - DO YOUR HOMEWORK! Then talk.

GodSend said...

Bible Study 101:

http://www.christiananswers.net/bible/

This is a Red Letter King James Version.

Start with the 1st Book of the NT (Matthew). Ben's question will be answered there. But keep reading - it will do you a world of good! :)

Anonymous said...

Here's a funny one (well I recon).
What if JC was electrocuted in an electric chair?
Can you see JCers running around with a mini electric chair dangling around their neck?
No?
It was an invention, a fabrication, a lie, meant to keep the populace in line, then a tool of a people with little hope and no imagination (or too much imagination and little common sense, however you look at it), and now it's a great money spinner. wtf.
Tony

Anonymous said...

There you go - found one!
(Although it's after the fact)
1 Corinthians, Chapter 15 (King James Bible) -
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

Tony

Anonymous said...

So it's in there ONE TIME! (maybe twice, I think it's in II Peter also)

But it's interesting that Paul is the only one that ever says it. Just think, out of all those pages of scripture you get maybe two small pieces of a sentence referring to Jesus dying for sins. And yet it's the predominant message of the entire religion. That's just odd to me.

Ben

Anonymous said...

Ben
I think this godsend is one of Vis’ arch-nemesis from the Fray and he’s funning with us. It’s great isn’t it!
Tony

Anonymous said...

Godsend reminds me of a number of folks I encountered over at the Fray as well as a number of other places. His is not a very original argument.

Ben

GodSend said...

Tony & Ben, et al

It's not the originality of an argument that matters - it is it's power!

You asked about the Cross and Christ's sacrifice to redeem humanity (ONLY those who accept His sacrifice and become His Followers).

What did His sacrifice obtain for those who are forgiven their sins and who belong to Him? It is all about THE source of Light and so is very 'on-topic' regarding the 'City of Light'.

Get the answer here:

http://www.austin-sparks.net/english/000943.html

Anonymous said...

That's true Godsend. And your argument is powerful in that those who objected at that critical time in history were literally beaten and/or tortured into submission. Fear is a pretty powerful thing and a belief system based on fear is bound to be pretty popular.

Ben

GodSend said...

Benjamin, Benjamin, Benjamin - before the rooster has crowed even once, you have denied Jesus the Christ more than 3 times!

With a name like Benjamin, I take it you're of the Jewish persuasion. Les' outrage notwithstanding, that would make you an antiChrist, am I right?

Did you enjoy T. Austin-Sparks' article about the Open Heaven? (open to Followers of Christ, that is).

I 'have your number', Benjamin - you wear it in your posts and questions. ;) Can you guess the number?

Visible said...

Godsend, you're getting annoying. You're getting insulting and you are behaving like all of the sort of people that you present yourself as better than.

It's okay that your are arrogant and opinionated and burdened with tunnel vision but it's not okay to present yourself as one thing and to behave as another. It's not okay to condemn behavior that you practice.

The problem in trying to make a point with someone who lacks an objective capacity is that it is like trying to knock on wood- or a tree and expect it to answer.

There isn't a single person here who has been moved one wit by anything you have said except to be moved away from the thing you talk about. In that sense you do the devil's work which is that of a divider. Now you are becoming a slanderer too which is the actual translation of 'devil' from it's root orign 'diabolus'.

No one here is benefitting by anything you are saying and so it appears to be a need of personal vanity to continue in it.

You can go on ranting to an empty or hostile house but you are going to convert no one here. Everyone here has a mind.

I don't like having to say these things but the way you spoke to Ben just now is off the wall and exposes just how real a Christian you are.

Part of me says you should take that phoney Jesus of yours and stick him where the sun don't shine because that is where your personally fabricated Jesus came from. But I'm not the sort of person who does that any more.

This is just my way of saying that we read you a lot better than you think and you are just pissing into the wind. That's how it is.

GodSend said...

Well, Les, even though I admire your writing and your singing, you obviously have a 'blind' spot (pun intended).

I don't doubt that people here have a mind - but I doubt that many of them have a heart that can feel Christ's agony. Your anti-Christ ranting against me just shows that your understanding of Christ is no greater than that of others here (Benjamin, annemarie, Tony, etc.) - insufficient.

Christ came not to bring peace but a sword. (His words). You are either one of His Followers or you are one of His enemies. Unless you declare Him to be God and unequivocally the ONLY God (that means to the exclusion of ALL others), you are an anti-Christ. Did you get that? YOU are an anti-Christ! Am I getting through to you? All that stuff about other 'manifestations' of God is pure, unadulterated BS and self-deception.

Your insults reveal you as someone with excellent writing (and singing) skills but totally devoid of spiritual understanding! You sound Jewish. ;) Are you another Bob Dylan?

"I am the Light of the world" means that Christ ONLY is the Light of the world. All other light is from Lucifer or a mere reflection in a (smoked) mirror. What are you smoking?

Go mow your lawn!

So, Benjamin, what's your number?

GodSend said...

The Devil's work is done by the one who likes to call himself the Uniter and Decider (Bush). Uniting people to accomplish evil is the work of the Devil (Zionists who are uniting with 'Christians'!) Christ said that His message would split up families - fathers from sons, husbands from wives, etc. Who are you to contradict Him and claim that dividing is automatically bad? Uniting people in heresy is not being obedient to the Father - it's heretical!

Who gave you any authority to speak for others? Don't you think people can think and speak for themselves? You speak for nobody but yourself! Do not presume to judge me while you are still blind and can SEE! nothing.

And don't let the many compliments about your writing and singing skills go to your head and make you think you're qualified to speak about spiritual matters about which you know very little, if anything.

Stick to what you know - singing. :)

Anonymous said...

You can't clobber or attack someone offensively with a weapon and say you are doing good. You can't beat someone and call it love. Similarly you can't threaten someone with violence, torture, pain, suffering, or hideous images of fire and brimstone and call it love. You just can't, because it isn't love, it's hate or fear-mongering. And that's just wrong.

imo, Jesus preached, taught, and lived lovingly. He said "blessed are the peacemakers." He said, "let he who is without sin cast the first stone." "Turn the other cheek..." "Love thy neighbours, love thy enemies..."

I have not studied the Bible, nor do I intend to, though I have read some of it. And though I may be mistaken (but don't think so), I do not recall Jesus EVER threatening, insulting, intimidating, or smacking a single person. I do recall that he once trashed the temple of the money changers (in frustration regarding their hypocrisy). Even after being crucified, and before expiring, he implored God to "forgive them, for they know not what they do." He was merciful, gentle, peaceful, and remarkably, incredibly forgiving too. In sum, Jesus was as gentle, understanding, brilliant, and as loving as it gets.

I am not a Christian. Nor do I subscribe to any other religion. And I'm not even sure if Jesus was real or myth. Nor does that matter to me. But I honour, admire, and respect the teachings (attributed to or) of Jesus; along with those of some others.

Still, I would never toss out the baby Jesus story/teachings (nor the man, for that matter) with the bathwater. But I have no use for used bathwater.

And that's how I regard the preachings and rantings of most (so-called) religious people, as used/dirty bathwater. That is precisely how godsend's words come across to me, as used bathwater, as an unloving, hurtful, hateful club over the noggin', as an angry, belligerent, arrogant lecture. I don't want any of it, I don't need any of it. And I find that it does a disservice to the spirit, memory, life, and teachings of a lovely, loving, and inspiring man/spirit called Jesus. So help me God.

annemarie

Anonymous said...

Godsend -

You really are a typical Christian.

It's interesting that you would keep reading and posting at a blog like this. But then again, it really isn't because the human ego loves attachment to it's own opinions and viewpoints and the opportunity to engage in the conflict that comes out of such strong attachment and the need to be right.

You feel just a little bit bigger inside by ranting on all self-righteously like this as if you have some great secret or piece of information we haven't all heard at least a few thousand times.

And then when you tire of that you resort to name calling. Just silly.

(Hey Godsend, MY God can beat up YOUR God!!)

Ben

Visible said...

Christ is not in agony. This more than anything proves that you have no understanding. I'll let you go on a little longer but I think your time here is about over.

Anonymous said...

godsend,

Jesus of Nazareth was a Jew (which Ben also noted). Or did you sleep through that Bible lesson? You keep asking people, Ben and Les for e.g., if they're Jews. Why? Are you compiling lists, are you a statistician? And if they are Jews? So what!?! You anti-Jew? Sure beginning to sound like it. Jesus would not approve of your behaviour. Of that I'm sure. Wu Wei already booked that you were a sick minded person. sigh.

And now that you have been unmasked for the fraud that you are-- which you did yourself btw-- deal with it.

I'm an anti-Christer? oh tickle me Elmo!

Furthermore, if so many of us like Les who's the site owner/author, along with those of us who post here regularly are, as you say, anti-Christs, why do you keep coming here? It's evident that you enjoy it. Why you even tried to bait me into joining in the debate, a while back. Missing me, were you? ;) ;) Professional wanker are you? Don't answer, that one was rhetorical! Yeah, I've got your number too, mister "godsend". Not!

pfft! Bushels of raspberries to you.

--------

Ben,

Hey! MY God can take everybody's God, blindfolded, crossed-eyes, hands tied, etc. Geeze. teehee

annemarie

GodSend said...

"A servant is not greater than his master. If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you"

Here is my final comment on this Blog:

http://www.austin-sparks.net/english/books/002019.html

Anonymous said...

More Christian handiwork - verbally beating you with a stick and then calling it persecution when you object.

Ben

GodSend said...

Let's try that again (link was truncated):

http://www.austin-sparks.net/english/
books/002019.html

(The Greatness of the Cross)

Visible said...

I just knew you were going to go the martyr route. I had some things I was going to say to you but I've been in a holding pattern, more or less.

Godsend, you do as you like. But I think everyone here will agree that it is you who have been persecuting us, not the other way around. Furthermore you have been looking to provoke posters into bad behavior by acting like a troll and tossing out casual insults in an effort to get someone/anyone here to get angry with you and give you the negative attention you have been looking for.

I didn't particularly want to ban you because I intuited (rightly I see now) that you would use this to convince yourself that you were being persecuted in the name of your make-believe Jesus. This is not to say that J.C. is make-believe, just your version.

All this hellfire- my way or the highway nonsense is juvenile spirituality. I realize that nothing I say is going to make any difference to you about this because you've got such a major investment in this Dr. Bronner's soap label mysticism as your site so clearly illustrates.

I'm confident God will square you away at some point as he does all of us and so I'm sure you'll be fine. We all get there eventually; some sooner than others.

There isn't much point of my going on given that you've wrapped yourself in a mummy blanket of small print that buffers all input. I don't mind your coming around but as I said, this is probably not a good site for you here because all of us are anti-indoctrination and anti-literal definition as should be the case for anyone with a mind that has some critical facility operating.

Of course I don't speak for others as you pretty rudely accused, nor have I ever made any claims about myself, nor will I but I don't think anyone is going to argue about much of what I've said here (unless they suddenly show up with some new nickname).

What I will say is that I am very proud of the way the other visitors related to you here. This could have gotten ugly under the relentless pressure of your provoking. Nobody bit.

I honestly wish you well and I do think you should look for a more fundamentalist based site where people are into what you are into. I don't think you realize how annoying it can be when someone starts turning into a billboard flashing the same phrases over and over again so that it might as well be, "Joe's Diner." as "Jesus Saves."

It turns into a commercial for a person's spirituality. Christ was pretty clear about people proclaiming in the market place and publically praying and whitened sepulchers and all that.

I know you have a good heart but this frenetic intensity is going to impress and convert no one with any intelligence.

Well, as I type all of this I keep realizing that nothing I say is going to make a dent in your thinking and that's the sad thing.

I'll conclude with saying that I don't mean you any harm and no one here does. You can come and go as you like and I'll probably only look out for the times when you get abusive or insulting. For all I know this is just a chemical thing. Maybe everything is chemical in some way.

But you do need to disabuse yourself of this persecution in the name of the lord complex; that's just a fantasy in your head. Truth be told it's been the other way round.

I just re-read all of what I wrote and I wonder if I was too harsh and whether I could have been more clear but as I think about it I tend to believe that I should post all of this. I don't want to get into the habit of pretending to be all wise and falsely comapssionate and humble and all of those poses that I see people get into who are making their dollars off of the gospel of whatever. Sometimes it is best to just speak your mind. Maybe my doing this shows up my own imperfections and that might be a good thing too.

Be well...

Visible said...

In the future when you want to post a link use this site

http://tinyurl.com/

Then you won't have any more problems like that. When you split a link sometimes there is a gap that is made and the link doesn't work anyway unless the person figures out to close the gap.

GodSend said...

Les,

Consider this a PS to my LAST comment here:

I did not read your last comment past the first few words - and I don't intend to. You are a Luciferian - the angel of the Dark light! And the others here are of the same ilk - anti-Christs.

"No one comes to the Father except through Me"

Remember that as you revel in your manifestations of the Dark light!

"The Word of God is living and powerful and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart"

Unless you are in the Light of Christ (and no one else), you are in Darkness and a servant of Lucifer. You are a 'New Ager' and speak with an oily and deceitful tongue, surrounded by that false light, reflected in a smoking mirror (sign of the Devil).

Visible said...

Well, that's quite a compliment. I don't know what to say. I'm honored I guess. I know that the church seeks to ruthlessly supress those who tell the truth and that fundamentalists tend to believe that any one who doesn't buy into their robot party line is a heretic or the devil; even when it's the church and its hardliners who behave like it.

You should have read my whole post and I'm pretty sure you did, human vanity being what it is but I'm not a New Ager. I have no use for that side of things.

There's no money in what I do and nothing else I can think of except a certain amount of satisfaction in being allowed to do it and the wonderful people I get to meet. I'm not concerned with what you label me as. I have some idea of what is in my heart and what my intentions are.

I realize that I often fall short but I do try and I believe that everything is set up to help me grow, this included. I'll be a better person for all of this and I wish the same for you.

Anonymous said...

Les -

It's so easy to distinguish between those to whom God is just a figure head, storybook character and those who have had some direct experience that goes beyond what they've read or what somebody told them.

We're all just here doing the best we can and making the best decisions based on the information we have at the time, Godsend included. There was a time not so long ago where this kind of thing would send me into pit-bull attack mode; happened numerous times at the fray.

I no longer feel the need to engage in a verbal streetfight but I have to admit that a part of me still gets offended by these beat you over the head with their Bible types. I hope to get past that someday. But...my ego hasn't completely worn itself out yet and there's still that part of me that gets tempted to act exactly like Godsend, just on the other side of the argument. It's interesting to observe these reactions in myself as I read through this whole exchange. It goes from offensive to humorous very quickly.

Anyway, thanks for allowing Godsend to carry on like this. It was a nice little exercise for myself and probably others too.

Ben

Visible said...

Yes, we all have that in us. The thing that troubled me the most was my perception that he was angling for just that reaction from us so he would have a certain negative proof of our human shortcomings. Anyway you look at it it is trolling and that's the only thing that bothered me; the baiting aspect, holier than thou-I'm right and you're wrong no wiggle room.

Both you and I are better people than we were. I was pretty out of wack at the fray and these days it is hard to get a rise out of me there. I seem to have developed a previously non accessible restraint.

I can't help feeling bad about this but at the same time Godsend is free to post here. He's also free to get the reactions he gets as well. That's the nature of debate. It's too bad it gets personal but so it is.

I also feel bad that he probably doesn't have anywhere else to go. Whether he admits it or not this is a good place to air your views among intelligent people. But, once again, he's free to post here. It's only he who would forbid him. As time passes, and that's since just the other day, I don't have the same reaction to his more offensive comments. It just doesn't bother me now and that's a good thing.

It's predictable that the letter of the law types are never more than two steps aways from condemning the perceived unbelievers to some sort of hell that they have materialized in their heads.

I try to arrange my life around God and I'm not always successful at it, especially since I've had to come back here where the environment is significantly more dense and spiritually oppressive than my other house. But I'll be there end of the week, God willing and it hasn't been nearly as bad here as it was before so...

As long as I can keep reminding myself that God is in control and leading and that I am right where I should be at the time then all is well despite temporary discomforts on my part. Furthermore, everything I go through is grist for the mill that churns out the writing and gives me a mirror in which to see whether something is profitable or not.

Anyway...things are fine all round and neither Godsend or anyone else is going to get me into any kind of a negative exchange that doesn't turn out right in the process. He's sincere in what he believes but the pitfall there is that this is the same mentality that burns people at the stake.

So... I want to stay away from saccharine platitudes and molly-coddling as well. It's good to say what you think. It keeps things honest. One can always apologize but if one is merely posing so as to present the appearance of a posturing spirituality then one is a fraud in that regard.

Anonymous said...

godsend is insecure in his own beliefs
This is why he must cudgel us with them
godsend, you have come here to learn
Read quietly here at your own leisure, no pressure - you will learn
God has sent you here
Not to change us but to change you
Use your time here wisely
Tony

Anonymous said...

I think Godsend is accustomed to dealing with fundamentalist atheists, who do tend to respond to the various baits that have been dangled in front of us with the same vitriol good Xtians spew at atheists.

Fundie Xtians and fundie atheists are cut from the exact same cloth, of course, and both extreme views are actually the same; it is those who walk the middle path who are really on the other side of the coin.

It should be noted that Godsend engaged in this "debate" with others who do believe in some kind of Creator and a spiritual foundation of all that is. That's why the responses were so moderate and reasonable, I think. Kind of ironic, too.

What I cannot abide is anyone seeking to place themselves between me and God, like some carnival barker ushering me into a convoluted crowd-control cattle chute that forces me to walk this way and that until the friendly ride operator cinches me safely into a tight little car that is claimed to be the only way up the mountain. Well, there are plenty of trails up the mountain, and I chose one that does not require paying admission to other people, or make me shuffle through a maze of theological cobwebs.

God gave me my own two feet, after all. I'm happy to walk. When the time is right, we'll all meet at the top.

-The Village Idiot (back fer more!)

Visible said...

Just as there is more than one way up the mountain, when we get to the top we can see all of the ways down. Looking forward to that.

I still think you ought to put together a blog and be heard. As I said, I'll link you on my site and we can work on the sites that reprint me hosting you.

eldon said...

First of all, thank you Les for being who you are (visible origami & smoking mirrors & whoever all else you are, quite a Wordsmith!)

I just found your blogs today via the Crescent and Cross Solidarity Movement website and am very happy to have been so blessed...

I would also like to thank "godsend" for his magnificent contribution to historical literature enshrined in the following quote:

Christ came not to bring peace but a sword. (His words). You are either one of His Followers or you are one of His enemies. Unless you declare Him to be God and unequivocally the ONLY God (that means to the exclusion of ALL others), you are an anti-Christ. Did you get that? YOU are an anti-Christ!

That little paragraph is a golden compendium of all that is wrong with Christianity and I hope you all will come to appreciate it as such, copy and paste it to wherever you store precious word treasures, and shine it on with appropriate commentary to the rest of the starving masses. (those starving for the Word of God)

Godsend stresses that we must declare Christ to be the only true God despite the fact that Jesus himself told us that the One he called Father is the only true God!
(John 17:3)

A second witness from Jesus' own blessed mouth is in John 20:17 where he informed his disciples that the Father is "my God and YOUR God".

Contrary to those concise statements from the supposed founder of the faith, Christianity at large and in general instead demands that we follow their error or else be noosed with antichrist dogtags !

1John 4:2,3 says that "every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ (Messiah) has come in the flesh IS of God" and only those who refuse to acknowledge Jesus as Messiah are antichrists.

Godsend was only echoing the dischord of the Athanasian Creed, the straw that broke the camel's back in wholesalely invalidating Christianity back ~500 AD.

Rather than continuing the mistaken notions instilled by the character (lack thereof) of certain earthly fathers, and despoiling the notions of special favoritism for the unbudging adherants to Christian dogma, and disassociating Himself from the inherant trappings of mythological gods' sexual "fatherings", the Most High more specificly revealed Himself as the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds as opposed to "Father" ~630 AD.

I wish you all well as you submit to His cherishings and delight in His sustainment and enjoy His Revelations of Light upon Light.

'til we meet in the City of Light,
eldon