A PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT

Public Service Announcement


14 April 2014

Visible is moving home April 15th 2014.

At the same time, all his blogs - including this one, will be relocating, too; this means that soon this page will disappear - as will all other pages on Vis' sites. The move (the blogs' move that is, not lord Visible's) is expected to take somewhere between 3 and 8 Earth days so should complete some time between 18 and 25 April 2014.

The blogs will remain accessible however, on their old blogspot.com URLS, and here is where you are going to find them - so please bookmark the following links!


Reflections in a Petri Dish
Smoking Mirrors
Visible Origami


Please also be aware that although all the existing blogs' content will remain accessible, many image links and other bits and pieces may look a bit tatty for the duration of the move (not that anyone visits Vis blogs for pretty pictures anyway, but it's just polite to let you know)



Thank you for bearing with us during the move!



Visible Blogs


Monday, February 16, 2009

Every Master had a Life of Secret Shame.

It’s human nature to compare ourselves to others. In some cases we are made to feel better by the comparison and in others the reverse is true. Add in to the mix that some will be depressed and some inspired by this and some just won’t care. All of it adds up to one glass of water simultaneously half full and half empty at the same time to the soundtrack of one hand clapping.

For a couple of months now, I have been alone almost all of the time except for a couple of dogs; a strange ghost of a disappearing house guest and a couple of brief visits by a lonely neighbor who wanders around my land commenting on things as his way of touching. Most people don’t like being alone. I love it. It comes down to whether you enjoy your own company; whether you can live with the thoughts of your past, whether you are afraid of the unknown and whether or not all you know about yourself is what happens between yourself and other people.

I don’t watch TV or listen to the radio. I have my occupations, practices and the main concern of my life which is to master myself and which is the most difficult of efforts due to the sheer simplicity of the requirements. There are not very many people who are absorbed in a constant effort to bring their attention back to the same thing... over and over and over. Something has to have happened to you to cause this and you may not even know what it is... or was.

I’ve read a lot of books with varying perspectives on the self; its discovery, its management, its components and place in the scheme of things. I’ve had meetings with remarkable men and women. I’ve taken powerful substances as an aid to perception and engaged in various practices to the same end. You could say that this particular interest is my most compelling interest and as time and circumstance pass it becomes more and more so.

One thing that seems to be a huge stumbling block to self realization; mastery, whatever you want to call it is... our personal history. I’m not thinking about this in terms of the errors we have made but just that we think about our personal history when we think about who we are. Most people define themselves in relation to their past. That is who they think they are. It isn’t even who they were. If we don’t know who we are then we’re wrong about any assumptions we have made or are making. Because of this, what we remember isn’t real, irrespective of the way time degrades memory or how our lens filters color things.

I think it was Paramahansa Yogananda who said something on the order of, “You must take all of your burdens; your hopes and dreams and everything you have said and done and thought about yourself and the world and you must tie them up in a bundle and cast that bundle into the sea. Certain Christian churches refer to something called, “being washed in the blood”. Every religion has something like this that is recommended as a precursor to union with the divine. They’re essentially the same thing adapted to the personality types attracted to a particular version.

It seems to me that you just cannot be who you are if you are caught up in being who you think you are. Guru Bawa used to say that you can’t pour water into a bucket that is already full. I studied with him for awhile. He is a realized master who has moved on to a more rarefied plane. I couldn’t stay there. I’ve never been able to stay in any of these ashrams or fellowships because I don’t get along with bureaucrats and they don’t get along with me. When Bawa passed, the hierarchy paved over the beautiful lawn in front of the fellowship and put in a parking lot with designated parking places for themselves... but I digress.

...though, maybe not... it’s a common belief that there is safety in numbers and maybe that applies to spiritual progress for a little while but... you’re on your own even in the midst. The day will come when you are no longer there for one reason or another. You’re alone and unless you can face this you’re just playing patty cake. The only difference between you and the master you are sitting before is that his personal history is gone. Your attention is on your personal history because that composes who you think you are. His attention is on the self that has no personal history... it just is. Some will transmit this in a seemingly dualistic way and some will transmit it as Advaita. Some will empty you out while you aren’t paying attention and some will scramble your support structure until the props fall away. The method isn’t important though a large percentage of followers will latch on to this as ‘the ticket’.

You hear about, ‘the dark night of the soul’ and ‘the stations of the cross’, ‘the dweller on the threshold’ and sundry trials and tests. Whether you are reading, “The Pilgrims Progress”; “The Koran”, “The Bible” or “The Kybalion” you are going to come across these elements that are like the blades of grass that turned into sharp knives in the Stephen Crane poem. Your personal history can’t endure these things, which is why it has to go. Only ‘the self’ can endure these things.

When you are alone you come up against yourself. When you are not alone you are staring into a funhouse mirror. Your personal history is a convincing argument as to why you cannot accomplish self realization. It is filled with all of the mistakes you’ve made; all the times you’ve failed at even simple things. It’s filled with the record of selfish acts and deceptions practiced upon yourself and by extension... upon others. You’re a shameful little bug. This is what your personal history tells you. Every master has been right where you find yourself today. Some of them got up to more mischief than you but that’s somewhere at the bottom of the sea now with all the rest of it.

Of course, there isn’t a single master anywhere who is the master. Each of them has come to realize that it is the indwelling self that masters all. This is how persons of wisdom recognize each other whenever they met no matter what may overlay the presence. When a master looks at you this is also what is seen even if, for the purposes of assistance, your personal history is laid out as well. Guru Bawa knew about me when we met, as did the master that I met on a beach and who activated a certain process in me. Both of them had something to say. There wasn’t anything bad... nothing like the things in my own mind about myself. It was all very encouraging. Neither you nor I are what we think we are or what the world thinks we are.

The world is a manufacturing plant. It manufactures lies. This is its job. You wouldn’t fault Nature for producing her plenty even if some of it is not good for you. The same wind that cools you in the heat can carry away your house. We must remember that in seeking a master or in seeking the truth that we are seeking the destruction of everything we invested our personal history in. It’s not all dancing and singing. It’s the loss of everything you hold dear but... there’s no lasting value in any of it. Still, it is why the majority turns away and returns to their former pursuits or why they continue to attempt what cannot be achieved with that knapsack on their back.

You’re not going to get any support from the world. The world is going to laugh at you. It’s a good indication that you are headed in the right direction; if that’s what you want. Whatever we are going to come up against we have to remember that all of these masters came up against it too. The reward is beyond description or... you can continue on through the inescapable disappointments of the world. It will eventually strip you of all you hold dear and leave you broken and alone. It would be a far better thing to accomplish this before hand and find that you are neither.

Visible sings: The Sacred and The Profane by Les Visible♫ Listening to God in the Morning ♫
'Listening to God in the Morning' is track no. 13 of 13 on Visible's 2007 album
'The Sacred and The Profane'


The Sacred and The Profane by Les Visible

35 comments:

Anonymous said...

Although it has no meaning really.
About leaving the past and the story of leaaving your past behind and comparison.
Comparison I think is the most vile mind sucking thing that can take place.
Whenever I "compare" myself, I always feel inadequate and just plain old idle.
And then again because there is so little to me there is really nothing to let go of.
Nothing to be proud of, nothing I have worked for, no accomplishments. Nothing to enshrine or scrapbook or any such thing.
So the mind makes out that this is a failed existence, and yet letting go of this "me" of the failed existence offers such tremendous peace and joy.
I never thought I would be so grateful for such a gift.
Blessings Les,
Perhaps one day if life finds me that way I can whip up a meal for you.

su

Visible said...

If you are having trouble posting your comments- due to Blogger making war on my blogs then send me your comments and I will post them as I just did the one above.

V

Ben There said...

Thank you for this reminder Les. The personal history thing…it’s a source of so much suffering for so many people; it’s a stumbling block as you say, and yet, it’s something that we cling to for dear life. It is our perceived identity which is perhaps why the thought of ‘casting it into the sea’ is such a terrifying thought. You do that and what’s left? We are very attached to who we think we are, even if it’s not a happy picture. Maybe even more so if it’s not a happy picture. I see meditation as a daily practice of letting it all go, of emptying out the personal identity. There have been a few times when it’s happened, personal history goes bye bye and so does the false ‘me’, and the feeling is so light and free and alive. It’s like a heavy burden is lifted and you just want to start laughing. I can’t say for sure but my guess is that this is how it is for realized masters, they are in that place constantly as opposed to the fleeting episodes that the rest of us get.

Anonymous said...

Ah, the roles we play, have played, think we should play--I gave up being a husband, father, etc. and all the "stuff" and just am what I am right now--still, the mechanics are needed from time to time to keep the mechanism running but then it's like a heartbeat that I don't think about until it needs thinking about.
There is something of a "I don't care what people think about me" weight that falls by the wayside, as it needs to--an acceptance of nothing(ness). I'm not trying to do anything by design because it would be my design that I think is original but yet has been influenced by that of this world--
We are programmed to think there is a set progression to all this and I don't think there is--if we think there is, haven't we already gone ahead and messed up what could have been for what we thought it was--

Jj

netrageouz said...

hey les..

thank you for blogging these inescapable truths that you are so candid to bear. i have been faced with the very essence of choosing between all that i have known to be the story of my life, or wiping the slate clean and diving deeper into the recesses from which all illusions have painted the pretty pictures and colored canvas called 'my life'. the reality check is sometimes unbearable; and thus the realization of self growth and metamorphosis of my soul becomes ever more present in my consciousness, and i am still. but not for damn long as life is a whirlwind and i am deep in the eye of the storm most of the time.

looking for the door, and admiring your windows,

ana hernandez
netrageouz.net
netrageouz.biz

Anonymous said...

Yeah blogger seems to be warring at
you.
What strikes me abt yr posts, well
we all know the excellence but its the timeliness, in my case. Here it was, this essay, discovered in this morning of my feeling inadequate. From birth to late 40s always lived with someone - family, college dorm, roommates, wives, kids... then boom! divorce and the kids grow up, go off. Living alone was hell for about five years, Im a slow learner, but at mid 50s I wouldnt trade it for much of anything. The "if onlies" and "woulda couldas" just keep one stuck in the mire & so much more vulnerable to their mind control, overconsumption, drugs and toxins, greed, groupthink, "what will the neighbors think?" &c.

Anonymous said...

Les

the loss of everything dear, is what most people do last, and should be first. To "take apart" is the idea here. We live, as you say, to put the past together and thats a never ending deal if you dont know where your started at.

I have tried with all my intensions to share this idea with others, and fine a simple, nice, accord with you, on this. But that to is a grouping of past ideas and personal history.

I feel that we can go to places (not in this plane) if we "thow out the bundle" but wish to walk with another to that end. This is, to me, the problem of the master. I can walk and look forever with a smile, but "faster" can I grow with others looking and walking too.

The master creates the river to float on, and Im still floating one long trip without end. I see masters ( and other streams) on both sides of me but know they wont end up here Im going.

It is true, even for well thought people, the "alone" is the only thing stopping us from moving on. A form of shame?

Matt durkeematthew@hotmail.com

Anonymous said...

Hello Mr Visible, and all who venture here - I have missed this "virtual treehouse" quite a bit and hope you are all well tended.

Casting out comparisons to others was easy for me as I have always found myself somewhat at odds with "norms". My "committee", however, never lacked ammunition for the negative self-talk process.

The notion of leaving the past and all the baggage behind sounds simple enough, but the ghosts seem to dislike being denied entry into the party. I may need some better bouncers.

Where is that darn "reset" button, anyway?

With much love and great appreciation,

Z

neonurse said...

Les,
You have been my shining light these past few years and I couldn't have understood much without your articles to guide me. I am in the process of letting go of who I think I am. I don't know if I'll be successful but I'll be here everyday reading what you have to say. It is almost always relevant to my life. You have ramped up the articles of late which stirs in me a tiny fear that something unfixable is about to take place. Hopefully me and mine and you and yours and everyone else who desires the truth will move on to the next good place. Cheers Les! Thanks so much for insight I couldn't find anywhere else.

kikz said...

hey les :)
enjoyed our mtg in da fray, this am....

wondered if i could ask a small vanilla flavor?

don't know if you remb, the couple in from turkey, we met in hosp the last time...their daughter had just had the scoli surgery..
i'm thinkin bout them today.. as (he'd mentioned they'd b in dallas til the 16th) they're probably on a plane already bound for home..
can ya spare some good thoughts:)?
thanks,
love
k*

Visible said...

For your lips to God's ear.

m_astera said...

A few days ago I commented on Smoking Mirrors about the talk I heard on the subjects of honor, virtue, and impeccability.

Seems to me the subject of this essay is virtue. A truly virtuous life can only belong to one who has experienced and fallen for the temptations of the world and the body. What can someone who has lived their life in a cloister know about virtue? What can someone who has never sinned know about sin?

We are all reformed and wiser whores, or we are still whores.

As to being alone, V, it sounds like you have about the same amount or even a bit more physical company than I do. I have two turtles for company and go grocery shopping occasionally. But spending eight or ten hours a day corresponding on the internet, like I do these days, isn't quite the same as those times alone in the desert and the mountains. If you know what I mean. :p

Anonymous said...

I am feeling more and more out of place in this frickin' world every day--Juli and I were discussing it today just flopped in a couple of living room chairs (no, it's not a "Great Room" as the realtors and decorators like to say--it's a freakin' living room)--
Gloomy kids riding the roller coaster of sugar and aspartame due to their intake of all sorts of crap food--zombie nation at all ages--just take a pill--
before you think it, no, not in a funk--just happy to be able to see things clearly and run the other way--ah, heck with running--think I'll just walk and sit on a log at the first opportunity--
I feel like I'm the observer that just wanders--very entertaining in a train wreck sort of way--As I sit on my log a squirrel and bird join me, maybe a dog too--we look at each other and just start laughing at the absurdity of it all--squirrels have an excellent sense of humor by the way--
I just have no attachment to that which is spinning out of control around me--in the eye of the twister standing still where it's calm--gonna put my ruby slippers on and click them three times and see where my home really is--
Jj

I had posted this over at Nina's place but it wanted to come here too--
Michael: I'm surrounded by people and it's just as empty--void of life so to speak--I just smiled at Juli and thanked her for traveling with me--and thanks to you too, and the rest in here for the same--

nina said...

Yes, we can meet others and recogize one another and for that little while we are home. This is why I like you Viz, its that same kind of meeting, same kind of home.
But later on, alone, I'm mostly alone and like it that way, there is a constant vigil going on under the surface to break through the image of the self and it seems not a bad thing to make reminder notes and pin them on my clothes. Even when we are at peace we automatically still try to accumulate ego frosting. Misplaced anger, anger at all, instead of understanding and gratitude. In these times especially, it is too easy to lose sight of the bigger picture.
The notes on my clothes need to say these are not your clothes. These woven fibers are the byproduct of slaves whipped into stealing from nature. Maybe that would do it? Maybe not.

nina said...

Su, your friendship brings me great happiness. You see, I know nothing about you except the you of this instant. But that you is the pure you with no clutter.
love, nina

m_astera said...

Hey Jj-

It's a lone journey, bro. We should be grateful for any good company we find along the way. I'm glad to know that you are there.

Your remark about squirrels reminds me, for some reason, of this story a co-worker told me once.

Jessie and his wife attended some small protestant church, and he enjoyed going to church because the minister was always cheerful. So cheerful that even when he was not talking to anyone and standing alone, he would start chuckling to himself. One day Jessie asked him what it was that he always found so funny, and the minister told him "I talk to God, and God tells me jokes".

I'm sure you can relate.

Anonymous said...

moments of pure joy, reading these latest words of yours Les. So spot on and then to read that others 'get it' as well...awesome,liberating and joyful.
How Brilliant you all are.... Shine On!
Thank you Thank you
with Love
:)R

Anonymous said...

"This nectar coming from the mouth of a devotee is powerful that if one is fortunate enough to have the opportunity to drink it, he immediately becomes freed from the continuous journey of birth and death."
Srila Prabhupada

"The spiritual master, by his words, can penetrate into the heart of the suffering person and inject knowledge transcendental, which alone can extinguish the fire of material existence."
Srimad Bhagavatam 1.7.22

nina said...

Jj, here are two things you might try: When you are in a void, lost, at odds with everything and everyone, just say to yourself "Let It Go". That's right, relax into it, let it take you over, just Let-It-Go.
Another is something I overheard my partner say on the phone to his depressed daughter "Go do something nice for someone else." Let it be a mantra, its magically powerful.
At least, for me, these things always help because humor often doesn't. Why mock and joke when suffering needs to be addressed?

Anonymous said...

Hi Nina,
Juli said the same thing. I have also been trying to contribute more in a positive way in the blogs instead of rehashing the same old stuff that most of us already know--a brief hour in the "fray" has been my only journey back in a while (I hope). There is lot's of good medicine in humor but it generally needs someone on the receiving end who gets what has been said and can bounce it back-we take a chance when we use sarcasm, humor or metaphors (I think Les would know all about that the times he has made his point that way--you spend more time explaining what you were trying to accomplish more often than not)-
For a while I confused sarcasm with humor--doing better with that now--always feel free to call me on it if you see it or wonder what point I am trying to make--it is not my intention to downplay or make fun of someone-- No good Joss in dat'--I will continue to write on a day by day basis (+ -) and what I am thinking about, how I am handling things, etc. because it's also a way to keep myself honest and off the high horse which at some blogs it would be so easy to fool ones self and others that I am an enlightened being--
That is probably another reason I stay at the blogs I do, I know I'm accountable and folks have a good sense of smell when it comes to bullshit!!
Let me know if you ever have a head cold and your sense of smell is off....I'll write a doozy.....

Jj

Anonymous said...

Holy smokes, I feel as if I’ve entered the Fourth Dimension! Honestly, my karma has indeed been “quickening” – so rapidly, in fact, that I’m almost in a spin. There is so much positive and LOVING energy here! Can you all feel it? It’s so good, so GOOD!
Thank you, Les… thank you ALL… for your thoughts transferred into words. It’s all happening HERE… now. Embrace it!!!

After I first read this origami I ran to my piano, turned on my little recorder & played without having taken my usual Tylenol Arthritis Pain formula - :) Yet, I played this piece with the innocent delight of a ten-year old banging away at the keys - and that is the emotion I wished to convey! Thank you for listening... I promise you "better" next time!

http://www.box.net/shared/6s11j6a1ns

~ born intuit

m_astera said...

"..... becomes freed from the continuous journey of birth and death."
Srila Prabhupada

"......extinguish the fire of material existence."
Srimad Bhagavatam 1.7.22

So is that the goal, then? Get out of this hell-hole and leave the poor slobs behind?

Guess that's easier than changing things for the better.

Personally, I'm a big fan of planet Earth, and most of humanity is just deluded, not evil, so that's where I'm putting my effort, not into escape.

Stick around. This is where the action is.

psychegram said...

Are you telepathic? Or are we all just becoming attuned to a common frequency? It's all one mind, after all....

I say that because yet again this essay came along at exactly the time I needed to hear it. Lately - and I mean the last few days - I've been caught up in the story of my own little life, obsessing over my (many) faults and my (lack of) achievement. It's so easy to let one's past determine one's present, and thus ensure the future is more of the same ... my grandparents came down to visit the other day, and interacting with my grandfather was ... painful. He's a strong-willed and highly intelligent man of no small accomplishment himself, and as a result his influence dominates the lives of our family like a statue of Jupiter in a Roman temple. He's my grandpa and I love him, but at the same time I always have the sense that he's weighing and assessing me, and finding my psychic measurements coming up short of his lofty expectations. Maybe that's so and maybe that's just a projection of my own disappointment with myself, or maybe a little of both, but either way it makes it hard to be close. The inevitable result? An argument over 9/11, the Holocaust, and Dresden. Both of us convinced we're right and ultimately arguing something deeper and unacknowledged ... as always with my WASP family.

But there it is, that funhouse mirror you talk about. Seeing myself as I imagine I look through his eyes, my own worst qualities exaggerated into a deformed homunculus, a parody of a human being. Is that what I am? I know it's not. I know that buried inside myself is my Self, the same bright shining spark of awareness that unites all things. But it's one thing to say that and another to know it, to experience it as an ever-present reality and let it rise to the surface, displacing all the dross and sludge I've accumulated throughout my misspent youth. I'm working towards it - at my own pace - but I'm a long way yet.

Les, I know I've thanked you before for doing what you do, but it won't hurt to thank you again. You're a wonderful human being and you've given me more than I can ever repay.

And to the rest of you ... as you say, Nina, we know nothing of one another save what we see in this moment. And what I see, from Nina and Jj and Michael and Susana and all the rest, is only that you're beautiful human beings that I'm privileged to share this space with.

Frostwolf T'Firerose said...

I haven't posted to any site much of late. In the wheel of my personal year, this Imbolc-Beltane window of emotional springtime wears hard on me. My energy would love for nothing else than to go out into nature, amidst the changing weather patterns, and just simply be. The energy of the earth and the increasing sunlight in the Northern Hemisphere beckon me outside, but the workaday structure of my aimless 9-to-5 life keeps me chained to the cubicle. For the moment.

This post makes me think of a dream I had the other night, but also an experience that seems somehow apropos. The dream: I have a statue of the Orixa Obatala. (There's a missing accent on that last 'a' btw--Oh-bah-tah-LAH is the pronunciation fwiw.) I am pretty sure that he is "the one who crowns me."

Anyway in the dream I was carrying the statue in front of me, presenting it to the world out of joy and quiet radiance. I did have a sense of ego that accompanied me. I was bothered that I seemed to be invisible with the statue in front of me. I went into a store/restaurant of some sort, and there was a rather Bob Hoskins looking fellow there who took one look at me and then very pointedly ignored me. There were other people in the establishment, but because this fellow decided I wasn't worth the time of day, I was invisible to everyone else.

(I like to sit in mystery of dreams r/t trying to interpret them. It caught my attention--I haven't been able to remember most of my dreams of late. Don't know why they leave me as soon as I open my eyes.)

The occurrence: I am in a 12-Step study group. Each of us is working on the steps and we are at different points in the process. I am in the 4th Step which is creating the fearless moral inventory, and I'm using a rather standard book to work through them. Well, I shared the 4th Step already with my sponsor, and I have been sharing it piecemeal with my group, and last night I shared my list of shameful events.

It's one thing to tell a sponsor or therapist about this. But it was really charged to speak these in front of a group of people. All of whom have been sharing about their own process and with whom there is a sense of safety. And I feel that by doing this, I have really cast a lot of it "into the sea." (Funny enough, my daily tarot card is the 2 of swords which depicts a blindfolded woman sitting with two swords crossed over her chest, in front of a water scene.)

To go through those moments where there is no awareness of self, just of the energy holding it all however it holds it. Those are wonderful moments. Of late, my aimlessness has been bothering me. Not sure if there's anything I can do, and some of the things that are going on around me reflect quite a bit of craziness I fear. I get to make some contributions to all that--yippee skippee! But I really just want to do nothing else but just be for a time. However long I should need to do so.

'nuff outta me.

m_astera said...

Hey Psychegram-

I'm glad you are here, too.

As to the paranoia, judgment, all of that, best tool I know of is gratitude. Most of that stuff happens in 3rd seal (3rd chakra, solar plexus). One can pay attention to one's energy, and when you feel the energy start dropping to third base, make it an alarm bell to tell you to channel it into gratitude. The emotion of gratitude has a way of transforming any other energy it's laid over. No need to be grateful for anything specific.

Your grandpa sounds somewhat like my stepdad was. I finally figured out that there was no sense at all in arguing with him, simply because he was not interested in anything except being right. Once I realized that, I quit arguing with him, period. Never did it again as long as he lived, even when he wanted to argue with me.

It wasn't possible to discuss anything serious or important unless one was willing to completely agree with him, so as a rule nothing serious or important was ever again discussed. Not my problem, though. I was no longer wasting my time and energy and it made that aspect of my life much simpler.

Anonymous said...

Picking and choosing this and that from Vedanta, the Sanatan Dharm where all these popular aspects such as karma, chakras, kundalini, and other appealing 'mystic' concepts arise from, while dismissing or denying the "end of Vedanta," the conclusion of Vedanta, Krishna or God, is tantamount to spinning your wheels on a cosmic scale.
Maya is no joke and certainly possesses chains made up of every dream, desire and good intention.
Even Brahma, the first created being in the universe, who lives for 311 trillion years, suffers the four material miseries, the last of which is dying.
But, if, like Brahma says to do, one worships the Supreme Personality with devotion, one will certainly be successful in cutting those chains of Maya's illusions.
This devotional service is the most natural and beneficial action, since we are all eternal servants of the Supreme Personality, whether knowingly or unknowingly.

psychegram said...

Thanks m_astera, as always that's great advice. I'll endeavor to put it into practice the next time I find my conversation slipping into the familiar tattered garments of an argument with my grandpa, my father (which is far more common, sadly) ... or anyone else who, as you say, is uninterested in anything but being proven right (a sin I'm all too familiar with, myself.)

And Firewolf! Welcome back, man. Been a while.

m_astera said...

"the "end of Vedanta," the conclusion of Vedanta, Krishna or God......
Even Brahma, the first created being in the universe, who lives for 311 trillion years, suffers the four material miseries, the last of which is dying."


I've been peeling this onion for most of this lifetime, and at this point one religious dogma looks about the same as the rest, regardless of its source or antiquity.

311,000,000,000,000 solar cycles, and then Brahma dies. Says who? On what authority? And why should I believe that any more than I believe Jesus will save me, but only if I agree that he is the only son of god, otherwise I get tortured for eternity?

It doesn't appear to me that this concept of maya is being taken to its logical conclusion. What is the point of this "illusion"?

Why does the Creator need my worship when I myself don't need anyone's worship?

And what possibly exists beyond this illusion created by a God who needs to be worshiped?

Frostwolf T'Firerose said...

Psychegram, what can I say? I've been feelin' a mite insecure.

Interesting nature-observation moment I just had: The Hudson River 2 days ago was iced over by Albany's Riverfront Park, but today the ice has pretty much left the scene. There are just a few ice clumps left, melting away as they float downstream/upstream as the currents may move them. Anyway, I was sort of going into a trance-y state when I noticed that one of the ice clumps looked like a fellow in a canoe, just floating along. It went past a tree, and swiveled, altering its appearance to seem like a man waterskiing. Then I looked away and looked again and further downstream with its new angle, it looked like a swan.

I like whatever this sign might mean. Kindles a warmth in me, it does.

Anonymous said...

m astera,
God, by definition does not require your or anyone's worship. He wishes us all, who are born according to our very own desires, and will be born again and again, accordingly, to cease suffering gross material reactions and consequences. In other words He wants you to know and feel love, to come home to your real home, the spiritual world(s), free from Maya and her gross energy.
After all, we all serve someone..

Perhaps, after a lifetime of searching, you might peruse the Vedas a bit and after peeling the sweet onion of Sanatan Dharm, you may find a lotus, attain a fuller more personal comprehension of this universe and it limitations. .
It is up to you.

DodgyOne said...

Begone the ego, then when one being departed from the mortal coils looses the sence of loneliness and gains the sence of allness. One becomes joined to the many and can soar through the spirit realms of truth, justice and love, peace and tranquillity. The spiritual cosmos has no barriers, all knows all, one knows all and all knows everyone. There is the source of all our commonality of visions and directions, there seeing in the spirit is the battle over those directed by the ultimate ego. Among those are the zionists who plan to own the world and force all the inhabitants to bow down to the ultimate ego of pride, greed, lust, envy, hatred, sloth and jealousy. They that knowingly choose to serve the ultimate ego do so as an extension of their worshipping and expanding their own egos. They believe themself to be greater and smarter than the creator so their ultimate goal is to own all of the planet and to force all to worship them and the ultimate ego. Surely their end will see creation shine anew with all loving all. The truth is non denominational and non religion specific they contain only subsets of all the truth as does some of the sciences.

Visible said...

There is a new entry for Reflections in a Petri Dish.

The Lies that Shape our World.

m_astera said...

Anonymous @1:08

I do not doubt your sincerity, but I think you misread my questioning and underestimate my level of understanding. I am familiar enough with the dogma you are quoting.

To be more specific: I have experience of the fountain that arises from the top of Shiva's head.

Whose creation is this physical plane? That of some evil demon? On what unquestionable authority are you basing the claim that the singular goal should be to escape this particularly dense illusion?

At what point does maya end? Are there not spiritual worlds of illusion as well?

There seems to me to be a logical fallacy involved. Why create a place of such wondrous beauty and profound experience as Terra/Earth simply as a venue from which to escape?

Will Nature, the soul and spirit of this planet, achieve enlightenment one day as well and leave it behind, a once again barren rock? To what end?

Would it not be equally valid to postulate the goal of transforming and evolving this material existence, rather than focusing on escape, on never returning to this vale of tears and desires?

Why should harmony and unconditional love exist only upon some higher dimensional plane? If that is the truth and natural state of existence, should those qualities not prevail throughout Creation?

Right or wrong, deluded or not, the choice I have made is not to escape but to do my part to bring forth those qualities upon this plane of demonstration.

It appears we have a rare opportunity to do just that, right here, right now. I am not interested in wasting that opportunity by following any ancient dogma. The realities and opportunities that may have prevailed then are not necessarily the same ones that exist today.

Anonymous said...

I base my beliefs on the words of Lord Krishna, spoken to Arjuna at Kurukshetra. Also the Srimad Bhagavatam.
If you look, the answers to every one of your questions, and more, are there.
As for Lord Shiva, he, like Lord Brahma, is a Vaishnava, also according to their very own words.
Brahma has given us the Brahma Samhita and Lord Shiva is most certainly known, universally, as "the greatest devotee."
I really don't have any opinions of my own. Considering the opinions of those mentioned above, I am hardly in a position to do anything but listen, learn, and occasionally repeat the words of those who are realized transcendental authorities..
Thanks

m_astera said...

Anonymous @3:18 am

And what, pray tell, is the difference between the sources you accept unquestioningly and others' unquestioned dogma, e.g. the Book of Revelations that a poster at Smoking Mirrors continually claims has all of the answers?

Yours is right while theirs is wrong because you have chosen to believe your dogma therefore it must be right?

Pointing out that "it says so right here in this book" proves nothing beyond the self-evident.

If you don't have the guts to question EVERYTHING then you will never be anything but a follower. If you are happy with that, fine, but don't waste your time or mine trying to convert me into another follower. It isn't going to happen.

I may use a trail that another has blazed if it happens to be heading in the direction I am aiming, but that is about it. At the point where that trail veers in the direction of worshiping some ancient god, or unquestioned acceptance of dogma, I will take another trail or blaze a new one.