Friday, June 26, 2009

Talking Bout that Low Rent Shangri La.

Finally... back in Origami and feeling a little like an Origami project; not quite bent out of shape but more bent into shape, a tad short of the moment of having relaxed into whatever this is but... getting there.

In the last episode, our heroes were talking about a community in the flesh for the purpose of precipitating the virtual into the actual. Some mention was made of Belize. That is a little close to Mordor however. Still... we are far more protected than we might realize. I have certainly found this to be the case, having been given direct examples of it over recent years.

Here is the housing structure that I have been considering and hope you will consider as well. There are a number of advantages to this structure. It is very cheap to build. It is warm and tight (or can be). It is beautiful and embraces a salutary architecture that provides remarkable feng shui.

I’m going to speak for myself now and anticipate that you will add to what I say; help me clarify my thought, make additions- because my knowledge is somewhat limited in these things- and generally help to solidify the vision. Let me say that it is not life and death whether we accomplish this thing. The important point is that we image it a la creative visualization to the extent that it can manifest with ease.

I need to be by the ocean; failing that we need a lake or a river with frontage. I am pretty certain that a good amount of finances will be coming into my life in the not too distant future. I am fairly confident that we have up to a hundred people who are interested in this project so... that provides additional financing which I would say amounts to what we will need.

We need to be within reasonable driving distance to a larger commercial area. We need to be in a country that has flexible building codes and that is a primary concern that needs to be addressed before anything else. My feeling is that there will be common areas and private areas and that a comprehensive design, a master plan, has to be in place before much else takes place.

I’ve been approached by several people in the medical field, doctors, who are very interested in being a part of this. We have some very informed individuals in the area of food production and permaculture. The Village Idiot and Michael Astera come to mind right off the bat.

I’m going to float around with this posting and just toss out a lot of ideas. I’m sorry not to be more concrete and organized. The fact is that I have a very good idea, blueprint wise, on how to do this but then it would be my idea and that’s not the way it goes. Costa Rica has a lot to recommend it. New Zealand would be ideal were it not so far away and so restrictive for immigration. Australia is ZOG land, as is Canada, the United States, the UK and various European countries. Also... a number of European countries are very controlling as far as building codes.

I do not mind a cold clime. We can always fly to the sun for the occasional sand and sea. Setting and ambiance are extremely important because the lack of them can seriously detract from the collective spirit. Italy is out because it’s a red tape nightmare.

I have some great ideas (I think) about how to support ourselves and no doubt others will too. There should be some minimal investment for each member but... some of us have skills that will prove to be far more valuable than money.

I put together a club some years ago called, The Survivors Club. Eventually we had about 200 members and it was a real success. It was a real success because no one was in charge. What we had was an inner group of about twelve people who had skills in specific areas. Each person discharged their duties and it worked like a charm. My skills tend toward food preparation; entertainment and grunt work; taking direction from those who need an assistant for what they do. I suppose I have a few other skills but not at the level of some of the rest of you.

I do not believe in making this project open to anyone. I’ve seen what happens with that. There has to be a vetting process AFTER we are past the initial stages. From what I can see, the people presently interested have already shown the necessary character for making this happen. After that though, we need to be aware. For the moment, I am throwing the ball into your court. Some of you have already come up with interesting locations so... please continue. Think about what you bring to the enterprise and begin to engage. I’m going to set up a blog where we can begin to discuss this and toss ideas around.

If problems arise with personalities, if someone wants out, we don’t argue. We take the left hand side of the bargain. There has to be a general awareness of impersonal being. Some of us are take charge types and some of us are not. We need a real sensitivity to each other so that no one feels diminished. So... grunt work and the less pleasant work needs to rotate through the group and I will certainly be glad to do whatever menial tasks are needed. I actually enjoy that kind of thing. There’s a vibe that emanates from a successful community that makes all work fulfilling and enjoyable. I’ve been there with that.

This is the last time I will use Origami for this purpose. This blog has another function and that will be back soon so, keep your eyes open for the community blog. If someone out there is more skilled at setting up a blog for this purpose and... that’s more than a little likely. Please let me know that you’d like to do this so it doesn’t wind up haphazard as it might if I do it.

This community is already a reality. It’s important to be aware of that. It’s already here. We are simply going through the motions to actualize it. A number of you are aware of the telepathy that takes place here; how I say something you were thinking at that very time or how some of you have done the same. We have some real powers at work here. Given that we can reduce our natural egos to the benefit of this work, there is nothing that can stop or hinder us.

Some of you have no idea just how wonderful this kind of living can be. It completes all of the longing within us and even effects a deeper communication with the divine. It fills the emptiness and super powers our faith and industry. As long as we take the small stuff seriously and the big stuff lightly we will be fine. There is also a magic that takes care of the details when we have the rest in order.

Let your mind play with the possibilities and as soon as some competent person offers to set up this blog we can have an environment to interact in. We’re going to have saunas and game areas... common eating facilities, hideaway groves for contemplation and interaction. We’re going to have anything you want that will make our interactions a real joy.

Alright then, I’ll leave you with this. Blessings on us all and let the wheels begin to spin.


Anonymous said...

I lived in a "community" once in 1970. It's a great idea, but, like so many before and after it, it foundered because of financial and personality problems. I answered an ad in Mother Earth News from a couple in Austin who were selling adjoining land lots in Belize (1972) & went down to have a look. It was beautiful and the wonderful plant grew everywhere, but primitive and I saw it would require a LOT of work in intense humid heat and as a teenager I didn't have the building skills or the funds at the time. Medical facilities seemed nil. If there had been a bad construction accident, etc., one would have died before recvg. medical attention.

Joe Bageant in his essay Zombie Food Court recommends Belize for Americans to get away to for a month (as he does) just to get out of the belly of the beast and see the unreality of life in the American Scream. With my health problems I don't think I could live in the tropical environment - that is a shock coming from Boulder, CO.
but perhaps you could offer it to some who could not live there in the spirit of what the Catholics call "eucharistic adoration" or a "retreat" - for expenses, a fee or whatever, offer others to come/work/retreat for two or four weeks. They can't be spongers and must fully participate in the community. I go to some monasteries who offer this as a retreat for a fee in USSA.
I would invest at least, just to make the idea a reality for some.

Anonymous said...

I don't see Belize on this index,
but Croatia, Slovenia, Costa Rica, Nicaragua and Panama all rank better than USSA. This is not a red tape index though! but a peace index, figuring in crime.

I have friends in Costa Rica with few complaints, tho that country as most has been hit hard with the global economic meltdown. Land prices are cheaper in many places with the deflation, etc.

James aka jackruby64 said...

Here's another bit of synchronicity, the telepathy Les mentioned that we often witness as like minds come together. The night before last , my wife mentioned Costa Rica as a place she would consider "bugging out" to. This is a great woman who has tolerated my ranting over the past 5 years about the coming demise of civilization, but who is still firmly entrenched in the material world. For her to mention out of the blue Costa Rica as a place to move to blew me away, totally out of context, as I have been keeping my rantings and observations as to how fucked up the world is to myself of late.
I recently finished reading Richard Bramley's "The Gods of Eden" (recommended by a comment poster on one of your blogs)and it sparked a few things in my mind, I have been searching for something that ties everything going on in our world together, and I get excited whenever I see something that does this. Seriously, I don't know what to believe or disbelieve, just that I am a spiritual entity trapped in this material reality, and I long for spiritual development and knowledge.If we are all part of the same source and things in this world that are beyond our control will play out as they will, why the hell not spend whatever time we must endure here with like minded individuals who are searching for the same things? Les, I greatly appreciate your writings and wisdom, you and your other readers have opened my mind up to more things in the past several months and tied a lot of things together for me. I sincerely hope you get this community together before they blow us all up, whether I make it there or not, I find solace in the fact that at least there are people out there trying to do the right thing, and that I am somehow connected to it, spiritually if not physically. Thank you.

Anonymous said...

I've been thinking that maybe some of the Greek islands would make an excellent place to form a community.It has the obvious advantage of a warm climate,some islands have sparsely populated mountainous regions with stunning views. Travel between the islands is easy and several small communes may be set up with people being able to travel and visit and avoid being stuck in one location.What better place to begin than the cradle of modern civilization. Thanks les Covkid

Anonymous said...

I agree with you Les,about being near the sea.That's where I feel alive and at peace. I know there are dangers involved, but really, I don't think there will be any place that isn't effected in some way by whatever is coming. Belize is beautiful, and very "laid back". The plague of Mordor can spread anywhere, as folks in Iran are currently experiencing.Again-I don't really see any "place" as being immune to that influence. We have to rely on our own personal immunities methinks.


Zoner said...

This is such an important step, going from a virtual meeting of the minds and spirits to being able to greet one another with a smile and a handshake. It is so very rewarding, and I have yet to be disappointed by the occasion.

Previously, it has been through the avenue of music - meeting up with folks who populate a guitar-related forum and then having local or regional gatherings to actually play together. The beauty of the experience is also found in the bringing together of a variety of different flavors of individual around a central item in common. I imagine that if that common unifier were the desire to live a "different" but intentionally just and sustainable life (whatever that means??)the results could be truly magical.

A vetting process? That could be interesting.

The structure you linked to really is something to behold, especially when you read the story behind it and the cost involved. Why does it look perfect and like..........home? Have we lived like that before somewhere, or is it just a warm fuzzy left over from the LOTR series?

I'd wish you luck with this, Mr V, but I don't think luck is in play here.

I'm sorry I suck at the blog thing, or I'd give it a go. I have some extra time on my hands, but not enough in the way of chops. I'd be happy to take a crack at a catchy theme-song, however. Someone will pick up the ball I'm sure.


Zoner said...

Sorry to leap immediately back in, but I thought this link might be helpful (if I knew how to do the linky thing).

Not so much to aid in this particular venture, but as a reminder that this sort of striving is alive and well, and I believe it to be growing in a huge way. People are looking for alternatives and sense the change coming. It is a wave building momentum and spreading out in all directions.

Here you can see endless examples of people trying to live in seemingly endless ways. who knows how successful any of them are, but it appears there are many. The reason I did the head-scratch about the "vetting" aspect is a result of perusing this site and reading all the various rules and requirements that these communities try and operate by. Some are logical, some are frightening, but as you can see there are actually a very large number of people out there trying on new, and in some cases very old, ways of existing outside the "norm".

Wheels spinning and all.


Anonymous said...


I am in lyons and would love to chat.


nina said...

If there is any good to be made out of all these years of typing into a box, this would be the pinnacle of good.
Not that its been bad, but it has been curious.
"Did we come this far just to be drowned?" - Stephen Crane, The Open Boat

We are in possession of incredible skills and expertise, being people who've largely stopped thinking about experts anymore and just do whatever needs doing. But those skills dribble away unused as if we never had them, as if we no longer need a body. Today we are eyes and fingers drowning in a Sargasso sea of nonsense. The butts of a joke at the Fed. Did we really come this far, only to ...

I'm very tempted to take a crack at the site. No guarantees because it could come out too much of me and not enough of the plan. When I thought it was one thing, I was surprised by another and then it went all the way into another and another after that because Visible, your imagination is unlimited and NO ONE can second guess where you might go.

Anonymous said...

Here's a book with a lot of good info for those wishing to expat Mordor - info about the countries, the red tape in staying in them, culture info. etc. but it is geared for the individual and does not discuss communities much such as those we envision"
"Getting Out: Your Guide to Leaving America." by Mark Ehrman
Process self-reliance series
They have a lot of other titles on self-reliance, getting extricated from the Murder Machine.
There are other whole websites on emigrating to Costa Rica, Panama, Nicaragua, Portugal, etc. My friend who is rarin to go, has quite a collection Ill have to beg of him.
The consensus is to avoid the Anglo-Saxon countries. Mordor is out of course - witness Waco or just as bad, the Mormon community at Eldorado, TX which was raided and broken apart by lies 99% untrue.
I spoke with a Mennonite community in MT & they said the local yokels always are envious that they farm and harvest more, become prosperous. The jealousies get tongues wagging & fabricated tips to authorities about "what goes on in there." Best not to be insular, to blend with the locals inclusively.

Anonymous said...

One other consideration - drug laws.
Of course a community has to vet out the drug addicts and alcoholics -- that creates the insolvency that e.g. led to the demise of our 1970 community (and the personality conflicts).
From my little notebook, it states cannabis has been decriminalized in Portugal, Spain, Brasil, and Argentina. Cannabis is illegal in the Central American countries; in Belize it is "illegal but very available".
The mordida is used for cited violations.
However the cannabis laws are very strict in Nicaragua and Panama.
Forget El Salvador, Guatemala and
In Brasil there are communities of the Santo Daime religion and Uniao do Vegetal where ayahuasca is legal. Generally ayahuasca has been legal since 1986. I understand there are many Japanese in communities espousing the PL (Perfect Liberty) religion in Brasil.

gurnygob said...

Hi Les. What about mad sex parties, can we have them, can we, can we????????????
Only joking (:
Les I wish you all the best with this. If I were young, free and single and a bit more fit I would jump at the chance, if you would have me.
I have some experience of living with a community for seven years. (not a closed one) the best advice I could offer you is to love one another. The best way to achieve this is in the “dying to self”. If a brother or sister offends you, have it out with them in a spirit of love and forgiveness. If feelings remain hidden then they tend to rot like left over food and before you know it the whole barrel of apples are spoilt, so to speak.
Even simple things need to be talked over. Also, when at a meeting have a stick and the one that holds the stick may speak while the rest listen. The stick can then be passed to next and so on. This keeps order and should be made a rule of meetings. It also stops over-lording; you know the way some people like to shout others down. The stick gives everyone a chance to speak.
You are right about the work, no one should be above and all should muck in unless they are unable or ill in some way. Love is the way. If I love my brother even in spite of his weaknesses and the little things, about him, that that piss me off, and there is sure to be a few, then all should go smoothly.
And may God be with you all.

gurnygob said...

Anonymous said...
"One other consideration - drug laws.
Of course a community has to vet out the drug addicts and alcoholics"

This is just an after thought.
Some people might think that you Les are a drug addict or the likes of me an alcoholic because I like a drink. Let me say this. I would rather be in the company of both, than in the company of someone who has already judged who is worthy and who is not. And how do we vet a person, do we vet them by the same system that the world uses?
Any community worth its salt should welcome everyone because everyone deservers a chance to prove themselves. In the community I was with everyone was welcomed with love and respect, even those who were not of the same mind. If things were not working out for them within the community then it would become clear in time.
This is why I love the teachings of Jesus so much. In the bible we read about the likes of Mary of Magdala. (let him who is without sin cast the first stone) can you see what I mean? Sometimes all a person needs to overcome those things in life that bring us down is a little love. Love changes everything. So to the person who thinks that vetting members according to their own personal standards, I would say,,, look at yourself first. Take the plank from your own eye before trying to remove the splinter in your brothers and so on and so forth. I don’t agree with homosexuals, but that would not stop me from showing love to someone who is one. (and don’t get smart, I mean real love)hack I could even love you.

ps. Les, I love the house. It reminds me of Frodo and Sam Wise of the shire folk, two of my biggest heroes.

Anonymous said...

Unfortunately no longer in Boulder. Should have stated I left from Denver for the first lookaround in Belize - the "community" was in the CO mountains.
Was in Boulder 1969-73, then left for the Austin (TX) scene & six years of "higher education" at U.T. Austin. From Austin I made two more car trips around the Yucatan and Belize, in 1981 and 1998. Very shocking to see what developers had done to the coast all the way from Cancun down past Tulum. Tulum was a sleepy little village in 1972. My homecoming from Belize/Mexico was to go straight to the GD concert in Boulder (Sept. 3, 1972)!
I'd imagine the coastline of Belize and Nicaragua have likewise been raped. I saw something about the fishermen of coastal Nicaragua having a fight with the resort developers -- the beaches had been "commons." "Progressive" countries aren't progressive when it comes to drugs and gays -- both illegal (death penalty for drugs in Cuba since 1999, the Castros have said they loathe gays.) Ortega thinks drugs and gays "counterrevolutionary." Chavez, however, in Venezuela, legalized all "euphoric substances" in 2004.
Still would be nice to chat about this community idea when the website is up!
Formerly of Boulder

Visible said...

My point about 'vetting' seems to have gone amiss. I was referring to agents provocateur and sundry. This sort of thing doesn't fare well in a conversation zone such as this. let me just say, like certain other things, I know what it is when I see it. I'm talking from a number of experiences where the intent was grievous harm.

Anonymous said...

Yes, agents provacateurs too. And some borderline personalities, not to mention psychopaths, the borderlines throwing a wrench into everything.
I could quote Andrew Weil's definition of "addiction" but would rather use the anecdote of what having a heroin addict in the community meant -- stealing all the community (embezzling it slowly Madoff style) money to put in his arm. Or the alcoholic drunk in the morning day after day who wouldn't do his assigned job and "oversaw" everyone else b/c it wasn't thinkable to let him handle powertools.
Actually, yes, it's a winnowing process over time, but it's real...none of this Survivor fluff on teevee. And actually, I was citing the drug laws of various countries because I don't think we would WANT to be in one where they are not tolerated. Recreational drinking, spiritual use of entheogens, one would want the community where this was possible IMO. Well, yes, these are all hypotheticals. Considering the fact a great majority of communities have failed in the past, just figured one ought to consider all the possibilities. Nothing is set in concrete, hell, it isn't even set in cyberspace yet!
The other reason our community failed was because it was homogeneous-- a bunch of young, white, middle-class, counterkultur types, all brainwashed in the American school factories (duck and cover!), many with the brainwashing of the churches. Get a heterogeneous group from all over the world with very different formative experiences if you want any hope of success!

Anonymous said...

Gurnygob, I didn't mean to come across totally dissing alkies or druggies as 'banned' from communities. In a tenderer age, liver willing, I was myself once. Maybe I should have said they 'stand watching.' Watts was said to be a great "adviser" when others were actually building a house in Mill Valley (hopefully like that hobbit hole!)
Some who overindulge can certainly carry their load. Alan Watts may have chugged the vodka in the limousine, but he got to the lecture and turned hearts. Who are we to judge the success or failure? I learned a lot from drunks - Jack Kerouac, Chogyam Trungpa, Alan Watts, esp. Li Po/Bao Li:
"once you drink enlightenment and wisdom
why go searching for gods and immortals?
Three cups and I've plumbed the great Way,
a jarful and I've merged with occurrence
appearing of itself. Wine's view is lived:
you can't preach doctrine to the sober." (Li Po, Drinking Alone Beneath the Moon)

Visible said...

"Get a heterogeneous group from all over the world with very different formative experiences if you want any hope of success!"

Quite precisely that is exactly what we have. I can think of ten countries right off the bat where residents have expressed an interest in that.

As for the ingestion of substances... some have basically legalized it like Portugal and Venezuela. Spain too but I wouldn't live in Spain (no offense)

psychegram said...

I don't think I'd worry too much about whether one jurisdiction or another has legalized this or that. How long do you expect such polities, any polities, to last? Such laws to remain? If I'm not mistaken the name of the game here is founding a project for the Ages, yes? Something to last. Why worry overmuch about something as ephemeral as whether or not a legislative body has decided to officially approve the use of something? The sort of people who will be interested in such things aren't the sort to care one way or another whether their particular poison is officially sanctioned, now are they? If they were that sort, they wouldn't be the type even to think about founding an IC.

I must say I love the hobbit house. Nonlinear eco-construction has always fascinated me; for as long as I can remember I've wanted to live in such a dwelling. I have a bit of experience in strawbale construction and mud plaster, myself: last year, I spent the autumn together with my sister and our late father, building a strawbale workshop on our land. It sits there now, empty and unused, its intended purpose voided by the passing of its intended user, but the experience of building it remains. Labor-intensive, yes, but not difficult in any other way. The entire structure was constructed for less than $20,000 ... and that's buying quite a few things that the enterprising could no doubt scrounge for free.

On a somewhat different note I think it's only fair - indeed, necessary - to mention Auroville. Have you heard of it? It may well be the mother of all intentional communities and probably does a fair job of describing what it is we're hoping to do. Many good ideas are to be found there. My sister's been there, as has another friend of mine. Both were blown away. Living in a place like that, with people like that, is another dream of mine....

re: the vetting process. This needn't be overly systematic, I feel. Let the community meet with the applicant, and afterwards discuss and then vote, based on their gut feeling. Agents provacateurs, pyschopaths etc should be easily weeded out by a group of people who know to listen to their hearts.

Somewhere near water - lake, river or ocean, it's all the same to me - with good soil. Nearby forest for preference. A rolling landscape is nice, perhaps mountainous, anything so long as it's not flat.

The Venus Project also deserves a mention. Quite apart from the technical innovations, some unifying vision is necessary by which the various ICs can be networked together into a wider polity, both less than and far more than a nation-state. Strength in numbers, yes? Wherever we go, a hundred or two of us will be smashed like a bug should the local population decide they don't like us but ... should we be part of something much, much larger ... that support could be crucial. Also the opportunities for trade (not necessarily of the monetary kind) are much improved.

Common areas ... I'm seeing gardens, orchards, Japanese-style ponds and, yes, a temple of some sort, the largest and grandest structure in the community, something built along principles of sacred geometry and organic growth. Picture the hobbit house Les linked merged with a cathedral ... too grand, perhaps? At any rate, something that will take time and cooperation to build, but will also be open for business long before completion. A place for meetings, for parties, for ceremony and contemplation.

There will be more thoughts later. For now the responsibilities of home life call....

(All these thoughts and I'm not even sure I'll be able to participate immediately. Certainly I won't be able to contribute much in the way of monetary support....)

Visible said...

Hey Psychster;

All good input and very similar to my own. I'm already linked with Venus Project and consider both Jacque and Roxanne to be friends.

psychegram said...

Oh, I know. It was through you I first heard of TVP and Fresco's work!

Visible said...

Nina and Amicus; Phil has a great concept for a forum. I told him to network with you guys. He's got real savvy in this department so we should have something professional soon.

It's all coming together.

m_astera said...

Um, drugs are not legal in Venezuela, so forget that idea. Pot is a huge fine or extensive jail time unless you manage to buy off the cops first. Coke will get a gringo twenty years. If you know the right people you can get anything, but if there's some sort of euphoric substance that is legal here this is the first I have heard of it. Rum, maybe?

All that said, the island where I live would really be a perfect place. 1000 meter central mountains, best climate I have ever found anywhere, decent fresh water sources, excellent soil (I've had it tested) that only needs a few amendments, e.g. fish bones and seaweed. Rural land is available and inexpensive. One big city that has everything one could need. Building codes are essentially nonexistent outside of commercial zones.

On the downside, corruption is beyond belief and crime is high in the cities. A major gov't official admitted a couple of weeks ago that 25% of crimes (nationwide) are committed by the police, so make that 50% if he is admitting it. The natives are friendly but will steal you blind, or steal their mother blind for that matter.

I wrote up a good piece on it last fall with more details, but I'll wait for the main menu to post it.

RML said...

Let me toss my whatevers into this.

1) My wife of thirty+ years and I went to Auroville. Beautiful, but it was a great disappointment. It had no center. The Mother's Presence was there but nobody saw it! Most wanted to be in control; the desire for bureaucratic efficiency became more important than finding one's center, one's source. I love(d) Sri Aurobindo & Mother.

2) Many years later, we managed the construction of a 200 person bomb shelter in Montana, under the "umbrella" of the Church Universal and Triumphant. That was the most amazing of experiences. Not for obvious reasons, but because of being able to observe first-hand the utter failure of a "community" to get real, to take the leap into the unknown of whatthefa? The were very few folks who were there not out of fear, but who found that what they really wanted was to participate in community. The weight of yet another bureaucracy smothered the life out of that possibility.

3) Currently, there are "successful" models of sprouting communities all over. South America seems to be attracting/ magnetizing this vibe; to wit:

Like any good story (in real life or fiction), the Premise/Theme of the Project is what creates the vision and like a hub, holds it together until there's some semblance of the Premise taking root.
Work from the center out, not from the location inward. Let the connective spirit speak on this.

My first question to myself and anyone considering this is, "What would be the point of such a community?" Why do it?

Preparation is 90% of almost any expression, and I would put "Defining-the-purpose" of the community as essential prep work. The purpose, the theme, the premise would determine the location, the geography, and how the basic requirements for symbiotic living on this planet would manifest.

Hope all is well.

Glenn Dormer said...


Anonymous said...

You might want to reconsider Canada.
Certain parts of southern British Columbia are very non-ZOG, despite what you might have been led to believe. It's a good place to disappear, if you choose.
I like the hobbit house idea too. Perfect for the cool winters and scorching summers around here.


psychegram said...

British Columbia and Venezuela are both great suggestions. Indeed anywhere remote and mountainous would seem to fit the bill, as regardless of what country you're notionally in, "The mountains are high, and the Emperor is far away," as the old Chinese proverb has it.

So far most of the suggestions seem to be focusing on South America. It has a lot in its favor: large, good agricultural land (cheap, too), lots of remote areas. Unfortunately as Mastera and others have pointed out, corruption is endemic, not just the political kind but reaching down to every level of society. Or at least that's my impression.

So, what about Asia? I'm thinking specifically Japan, here, though there are other countries too of course. Now, in the case of Japan there's a number of strikes against it: the visa laws are stricter than you'll find almost anywhere, land is certainly not cheap (though much cheaper than you might expect outside the major centers) and there's a well-deserved reputation for red tape. These are all obstacles that would require serious consideration. Also a factor is that Japan is the Eastern capital of the American Empire, but that Empire is crumbling fast and we shall see just how long it's grip over the Land of the Rising Sun lasts.

On the other hand, the Japanese culture cherishes eccentricity; the soil is amongst the world's richest; the people are generally friendly (if somewhat reserved) and extremely honest (Japanese culture practices consensus with a sophistication that few in the West can fathom, a natural democratic order founded on mutual respect that's written into the deepest levels of their cultural DNA) as a result of which the corruption index is extremely low; the landscape (again, outside major centers) is gorgeous and has lots of remote communities. There's a reputation, again not entirely undeserved, for xenophobia but modern Japan is nowhere near as intense in this regard as their head-lopping ancestors and the vast majority of people are far more curious than they are fearful of outsiders.

Outside Japan, other countries that come to mind are the Phillipines; Cambodia; Thailand; Nepal; and of course India (where Auroville was founded.) I don't know much about them so I'll say no more here.

psychegram said...

As to the issue of economics. To a certain degree this will depend on location, but wherever it is food self-sufficiency will of course be a major goal, yes? I'm assuming we'll also be generating our own power (solar, most likely, though there are other possibilities), and an investment of $20,000 or so will provide a well-stocked FabLab or RepRap which will allow the manufacture of most anything else that might be required (yes, even electronics) based upon open source blueprints drawn from the web for free, so long as raw materials can be secured. Of course no man is an island and the same goes for a community, so in order to trade for whatever we can't grow, build or make on our own we'll require some kind of economic activity. Some ideas:

-education: most anywhere we go English is not likely to be the native language. There's a definite demand for English language education all over the world, and especially in poor or remote communities this isn't generally being met. So an English-immersion school or something for local children could be established. This would have the additional advantage of providing an excellent degree of outreach to the local community. This could later be expanded into a 'Free School' style institution, in which we could provide an environment for local children to educate themselves, as it were, with access to all the tools they need to pursue their own development.

-entertainment: providing a venue for festivals and other assorted cultural events. Again this would have the benefit of community outreach, and whether admission was charged or not would generate a fair degree of incidental economic activity.

-food services: a restaurant, cafe etc run along coop lines

As one final point: wherever we happen to choose, it would probably be a good idea to learn the local language. Being able to talk to people in their own tongue goes so far towards setting them at ease, wherever you happen to be, as it shows respect for the local culture, a willingness to engage with them on their own terms rather than the arrogant assumption that they should adjust to you. This would probably be easiest in South America (Spanish being comparatively similar to English) and most difficult in Asia (Japanese is a bitch of a language.) I'm not saying mastery is required; just enough to communicate.

William Wilson said...

Hi Les-

Wanted to toss out some ideas on this.
I think a community like this could use a sponsor or protector(s) high in the circles of whatever nation might be selected. Someone who'de know the positive contributions such a community would make , as well as run interference in case of potential problems.
And, it might be useful to have a clear set of operating principles, rules everyone who lived in such a community would agree to abide by.
A good example, big or small, is targeted by the powers that be , this is almost too obvious to mention, examples of this are without number.
Looking at examples of other groups formed by like minded folk for community life might prove helpful. I think it could fly, if conditions were set up carefully and with forethough.
Running at the mouth, please forgive stating the obvious

john c, UK said...

Greek Isles or Portugal sounds good to me. As well as fresh water and maybe sea water for fishing, woodland/forest area for game and arable area for growing.

Visible said...

Hello Friends;

Various thoughts have come to mind and I also owe Amicus an email which I can just answer here because what I have to say in both places is the same.

this is just my idea and you will have your own but this is what I think we should be about in the primary stages. Let's be casual and attentive because what is happening is not something any one of us is responsible but rather something that is emerging as a result of our meeting.

I propose that we first get a house or a property that will accommodate at least a dozen people. This would be the springboard for the next stage. It is always easier to do things in stages than all at once and it gives us the benefit of one on one networking toward a common end.

As for the forum, I think the best thing is a general interface and the different subject will come up on their own.

It's also possible that there might be more than one house in different countries. These are just some thoughts I am having. I do think we need to stay loose at one level and focused on the other.

I'm on the radio tonight at feet2thefire... around 8:00 central or you can download it in a couple of days. I'll put the link over at mirrors.

The Village Idiot said...

Hey there, thought I'd add a couple of things to the discussion...

The Island of Mauritius entry on wikipedia is very interesting. In fact, the more I read the more interesting it got.

As I read further, it got so interesting that I really didn't think a country that fit it's description actually existed. And It'll be totally duty free in 4 years!

I'm not saying that's where I'd like to go, but it's definitely a place I'd like to look into further and hear anyone else's input about it.

As far as the community being welcomed wherever it might end up, I think making initial (and very casual) contact with the locals would be a good idea. Hang around for a while, meet some folks, talk about the idea with the locals, and maybe form a collaboration of some sort with them before the first tent is pitched (gotta sleep somewhere until the house is built!). That way they'll be looking forward to our arrival instead of glancing at us with suspicion.

Having one or two people (members of this community) stay at the prospective location for an extended amount of time to scope it out (in a word, scouts) while blending in as a tourist or whatever, would provide a good sense of who's who in local politics and all the other little details that are hugely important.

Case in point: Where I used to live, a New Age "university" was built that specialized in... well, I'm not sure really but the vibe was 100% paganism. They simply bought the site and built the very private school without telling anybody. Suddenly there it was one day. The school was for women only, and they wore white hooded robes around the grounds and were sitting around meditating here and there at any given time like a bunch of sparkling-white Obi-Wan Kenobis (sans light sabers). Well, this school was in the proverbial buckle of the Bible Belt (Southern Baptist territory, God help them) and so all the skittish locals whispered constantly about the "satanists" over at the school. That is not the best image to have among the locals, obviously, and could've been prevented.

For a project of such potentially vast scope, picking the right spot is probably the single most important decision, and so scouting it carefully beforehand for a couple of months or so might be time well spent.

-The Village Idiot

P.S.: I sent two comments to your last post at Smoking Mirrors and neither went through. Just an FYI.

The Village Idiot said...

Scratch that. Screw Mauritius.

Sorry I brought it up. Further checking revealed Draconian barbarians apparently run the place when it comes to the drug laws. Almost Singaporean in it's zealous ferocity...

Too bad. Moving right along.... Gotta find a place I can grow my own rope without getting strung up by it. Next time I'll do the 'further' checking before I post anything.

Earth seems to get smaller every day, so has anyone checked out Mars yet? I hear the US is already going to start bombing the Moon shortly, so now even that's out. Sigh.

The Village Idiot (again).

Anonymous said...

Looking forward to more on this Les and all.

I'm still focussed on my land in Jamaica. Sea, sun, Permaculture and good spirits in an ancient fishing village.

Cuba may be worth looking at.

Steve S.

m_astera said...

Here's a link to an article on Building a Post Chaos Community that I thought had some good ideas:

Visible said...

Dear Readers;

The forum for our (one day manifesting) community is now up and waiting for your comments and ideas.

The New Shangri-La Forum.

Anonymous said...

I spent summers in M.G. and Santa
Catarina -- little crime, just fine.
Avoid environs of the big cities tho!
There are more cultural and linguistical/dialectic differences across Brasil
than in USSA. Brasilian Portugues is a pretty difficult language tho, even for a fairly good spanish speaker like me.

Anonymous said...

"Earth seems to get smaller every day, so has anyone checked out Mars yet? I hear the US is already going to start bombing the Moon shortly, so now even that's out. Sigh."
Very funny but alludingly revealing on a political level.
Well penned!

Anonymous said...

Is there some kind of "double"
thing going on? I went to comments and suddenly there was "Magical Powers" and all sorts of comments and fone nummers... then zap! back to the regular Origami.
I hope we dont' already have a two tiered thing going..... the elect and the goyim.... makes you wonder. This always does seem to occur.

Anonymous said...

Well, "progress not perfection."
It seems Shangri-La has accepted my password and name, but I'm still having trouble posting and navigating around, but I want to thank the people who made this a reality so fast. Jeez, 48 hrs. ago we were talking about it, now it is. Thanks, Amicus et al. But it is in the cyberworld, and the community has to be in the real world.
Someone mentioned the Northwest. Yes.
I would also suggest NE Washington and N. Idaho. Boundary and Bonner Cty. Idaho. When I lived there I was shocked to find all the people there from the sixties diaspora. I had never heard of John Zerzan and Earth First! till I was living in rural Bonner County, ID. There was a lot of BC bud coming down from BC (before 911). It was a weird melange. I know people who bring up drugs are immediately suspect of being "agents provocateurs" but I'm just saying that the racist, Aryan Nations persona of Idaho is a lie and was invented by ADL and SPLC for their own purposes and N. Idaho is inclusive and is not racist and that was (like so many other things) a complete invention of the Ziomedia. Remember Frank Church came from Idaho (Church hearings on CIA etc.) Aryan Nations was a Zionist 'listening post' and if they marched in Coeur d'Alene or Sandpoint, you should have seen their angry feedback, rotten tomatoes, etc.! In Colville, WA I found a coop run by people who have survived Haight in 66 and had moved out... to Colville. I went to the day of rage in Seattle in 99 with people in far NE Washington. Lots of land there, and I'm told the price is down since when I was up there. (I returned to TX to tend to ailing 88yo parents b/c the other siblings would not).

Visible said...

I can't make any sense out this anonymous person who is making various insinuations about me because I have no idea what he's talking about. Is it this site? Is it the forum? I don't have control over either one. And I really don't understand the use of the word goyim which kind of gives the guy away.

In any case, if something is happening and you're not here to stir up trouble and spread confusion as this anonymous person is then you should ask me so that I can ask someone else because I have no idea what's going on.

Visible said...

Maybe a little clarification is necessary here. There were two comments by the same person. In the second one I was compared to Bhagavan Rajneesh or Osho as he was later called and mention was made about riding around in limos (Rolls Royces) and the same reference to double tiers and goyim. I've no idea what the anonymous fellow meant because I've never seen me parading around as a guru in search of luxury paraphernalia and adulating followers nor too many readers looking to make that happen.

It basically looks like a troll effort since none of what is claimed (albeit in a projecting and confused manner) is showing up for me; morphing websites, dual entry portals and what not.

Being relatively sane and concerned I went looking but couldn't find anything. It's strange that the other comment didn't take. Maybe it was directed at some past post and I didn't notice.

There's a lot of odd activity going on of late. There's some guy in Germany who is named Alexander Aandersan who, from what I've been told, has amassed hundreds of millions of dollars (he is a banker). He's also got a fleet of lawyers who keep his name off of the internet and he's working on some kind of a film that is going to be released everywhere all over the world at the same time and is supposed to save the world or something to that effect. he says he's not from this planet and he's got a number of followers that he's training to be on hand when the film opens. I know someone who attended one of his get-togethers and that is how I know what I've told you. There's all sorts of manufactured mystery around the guy and the public isn't supposed to know anything about him until he decides to appear. It sounds a lot like other things I've heard about that are not necessarily good but I don't know, do I?

Anyway... someone that I get certain things from on occasion asked me about him; he's a fellow that attends these events and I guess he asked me in the context of this person I know who attended and I told him my second hand impressions. I think he was feeling me out about going to see the guy. I told him I already had someone in my head that advises and shapes me.

Since this conversation this guy won't see me any more he says his situation has changed. As I said... a lot of strange things. I guess I call them strange because they weren't happening before.

Anonymous said...

I dont know if this is tried or will work. I tried it before, but this is no guarantee that it will work again:

These will probably not work out.
But they exemiplify what happened in
my family -- Episcapalian to Unitarian when the hypocrisy "could just not accept the pressure" as daddy said.

Anonymous said...

Sounds like lots of kinds of spin and fluff to try and get you off track Les.
Subversive attempts to undermine you.
Hang 'em all and hang 'em high!



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