Tuesday, September 01, 2009

The Eckhart Tolle Booth on the Road to Somewhere.

Well... first off, I have been having people talking to me about Eckhart Tolle, off and on for a couple of years now. I’ve read some of his work and been left stone cold because he sounds like, “Cliff Notes for the Divine”; a sort of dumbed sideways (neither up nor down) “Chicken Soup for Something or Other”... rehashing things I have heard far more eloquently put by others who have been generally ignored due to not having a press agent. Ten people can say the same thing and hundreds of them do but ‘the ringing of the gong within’ is not given to the hundreds and money cannot enter in.

When the avatar comes this time he is coming in the collective human heart because that is the seat of judgment and this is the time of that purpose. Tolle, like so many of these wunderkind like, should I mention Andrew Cohen, or any of the Rajneesh offspring or any of those white linen suit guys with the “I’m okay and you’re okay” and “the silence between your thoughts is more important than your thoughts” all makes me think of Louise Hays who understood every human discomfort and disease to the point that she laid out the source of it but couldn’t heal her own on the way to a publishing empire of people dressed in robes who claim to channel the one and also have special cards for each day of the year so you can always be up on it and there’s a special on scented candles...

I would be remiss in my duty if I let this go by. The real lightworkers are invisible because they are selfless and working alongside you like Babaji does when he appears now and then. I trust no proclaimed light worker who does not give nearly all of the money (and themselves) away and they don’t write books with title like, “Stillness Speaks”, that sounds like some pretty pretentious silence. But with me, ‘the eyes’ have it. I watch the eyes, the hand gestures and I watch the aura and it’s not like there isn’t plenty of youtube to go by. Jesus Christ... watch one of them. You have a search engine? And check out the Outer Space, half Mormon, half Elvis (without the rock and roll) getup and the simpering and cloying “I’m falling to sleep now” delivery. What the heck, watch some of it. It’s the same sit down, stand-up comedian I’ve seen on every new age circuit and it’s lame. It’s lame and lacking vitality. Or am I wrong”?

It sounds like some just add water dehydrated, freeze pack enlightenment for soccer moms. It sounds like bullshit chasing its own tale. Study just this one video... watch the speaking, the words, the gestures and most importantly... watch it double back on itself over and over as it massages the attention into torpor.

As I said, I could be wrong but if I am then I am very wrong. Do you think people paid to get in to hear this? Does he address what is happening? Does he talk about 9/11? What has he said about the circumstances of the time? All of these new age speakers avoid these questions because the money stops if they say anything. People... watch for what doesn’t happen and doesn’t get said. Someone please tell me what this man’s template is. Tell me who is in charge above and below according to him. Is there no above and no below? Is it something like the film, “Jacob’s Ladder”? Is it something like, “The Man From Earth”? Is it all just a lot of space between the thoughts which used to mean, “Spaced out”? Someone tell me where the kind of people who are listening to him are going to wind up.

What is the modality ‘after’ you stay in the present and whose present are we talking about? If California is burning to the ground- and it is going to, just wait and see what happens to LA... if California is burning do you just stay in the present? Would you follow this man into the desert? Does this man exude the quiet power of... say, this man? Does he have the presence of this man? OR maybe this man? What about this woman? What about this guy? Let’s see what I can come up with.

I am perplexed because I get a bad feeling about this guy Tolle and people who come here and read here are recommending him to me and I do not care for his delivery or his presence. He feels like some kind of ‘jumped out of the woodwork’ guy and that tone of speech that doesn’t ever arrive anywhere mystifies me.

Look, I’m a flawed person and I shouldn’t even be teaching people to play Backgammon or Bolle (rhymes with Tolle). Still... I feel it is my duty to speak out because I smell a snow job only it’s not snow.

I know why money doesn’t want to get near me because I talk about 9/11 and Israel. I talk about things I see coming and I saw them a long time ago and they keep coming don’t they? Does Eckhart have a get out of Armageddon free card? Sure, it’s going to work out but it’s going to go through some rough country. Is Eckhart going to be there to hold their hands? I keep looking for the point. I keep looking for what it is that you wind up being once you follow his instructions that have no destination.

I trust what’s inside of me and what’s inside of you and I don’t trust anything else. These are the very times we were warned about. Here is a reasonable question,; what force or persons is behind this appearing out of the blue and becoming world wide? The commentary of this man is simplistic and convoluted without closure and yet... he’s an oracle all of a sudden. If you knew how many times I got taken to the cleaners so that I now have to walk around naked all the time then you might understand how I got to where you can’t bullshit me, flatter me or make me believe I’m anything more than just one of you.

I see all the nice things people say about me. That and a dollar will get me a cup of coffee and I know it. It’s not like I don’t appreciate it or that it doesn’t motivate me to try harder, it does. I realize too that this pisses some people off and I feel for them because I know what its like to be the Crown of Creation and not have anyone notice because they’re too busy praising some guy who can string words together. But it’s more than the words isn’t it? I know why it is and that’s why no credit should accrue to me.

I’m not in competition with Tolle or anyone else and I don’t resent the easy fame or the magical pervasiveness because only one thing really pervades and we’re just faucets when you get down to it. It’s all water and the only thing that differentiates any of the water is the clarity of the fluid. I just want you to pay attention. I ask nothing more than that you pay attention and ask the right questions.

There is a major deception on the way and it’s not the usual deceptions of which we are all familiar. It’s the deception that appears to be the answer to the deceptions when Push and Shove get all Siamese in surround sound. The greatest deception is the one that fortuitously manifests in the hour of greatest need. It’s the Slim Shady bolthole that leads into a brick wall. It’s the promise of deliverance from the original bondage meister. It’s that cutting a deal thing when you don’t have a moment to think about it. It’s the “let it all flow” thing that runs right into the abyss. It’s “the man who squats behind the man who works the soft machine”.

So, like I said, maybe I’m wrong and this is your chance to tell me about it and maybe I’ll learn something or have an epiphany. Help me understand what I seem to not be getting. My reaction to this guy and nearly all of the rest of them is wariness. I feel like I got to watch the rocks across the icy stream. I feel like the guy with three matches in the Jack London story. I feel like I just don’t get it,. Maybe you can clear this up for me. Please be gentle... or not.


Visible sings: Something New by Les Visible♫ Something New ♫

The New Shangri-La

188 comments:

William Wilson said...

Hi Les, best.
Wanted to say about Tolle-for me, he puts in simple easy to conceptualize phrases useful reminders about time and living in the present. I've only read one of his books.

Visible said...

Betty Crocker makes five minute cake mixes and Uncle Ben makes Minute Rice that takes more than a minute. Would you prefer that to something made from scratch out of fresh product? (grin)

John said...

I get no vibe from Tolle either, nothing to make me keep watching and listening. That's one of my litmus tests....the feeling or vibe.

And I find it most timely or utterly non-unheimliche that you mention Mahavatar Babaji. I have been reading Parahamansa Yogananda's 'Autobiography of a Yogi'. People: Read it if you haven't, and read it again if you have. Just Google. The entire book is available free online.

On another note, I don't know quite what to make of Drunvalo Melchizedek, but I did sit attentively through the whole video, 'The Maya of Eternal Time' (youtube). It is interesting. Heart/consciousness seems to be the theme of the coming transformation according to that video which purports to reveal the true meaning of the Maya prophesies, according to the Maya elders themslves. This is a very recent video, about a month old.

And on yet another note. People are waking up. I am a physician in the U.S., and in surgery yesterday I was amazed at what the O.R. crew were talking about. My heart was glad to see some eyes beginning to open.

Thank you Les.

Visible said...

If you are wondering (and some of you will be) why I threw in some seemingly unrelated things well,

I'm making an experiment.

John said...

http://www.yogakriya.org/php/kriology.php

Pfft! That's discouraging. $875 (U.S.) for basic home course.

I thought all I had to do was find a master to initiate me. Swami Yogananda never mentioned this. ;)

William Wilson said...

Hi Les, I'd rather eat food made from scratch.
At the same time can say sometimes it's easier to use the mix.

My suspicion of TPTB has me at times think that if they cant squelch, divert, distract the masses' urge to transcendence then they like to divert it into channels they find non-threatening.

Ben There said...

First of all – you should win an award for this headline. Brilliant.

I completely discounted Tolle for years simply because he’d been on Oprah. That’s all I needed to know. Then a situation worked out where we were on a long road trip and needed something to listen to and out of curiosity I broke down and bought his audiobook “A New Earth”. I was both surprised and appalled to discover that I resonated deeply with his message. That was about three years ago and I’ve read or listened to a lot of his material since then. It’s certainly possible that I’m wrong but in my view, Tolle is the real deal. Does that mean I’d follow him into the desert or walk around wearing a loin cloth chanting praises to his name? Absolutely not. But there’s nobody I’d do that for. I don’t think he’s any kind of personal savior. I’m not sure that I even think such a thing exists. While I do think there are lighthouses out there who can serve as guides I don’t think anyone can make the journey for us. Unquestioning devotion to any figure is dangerous in my view and anyone who asks for it should be immediately suspect. I’ve personally seen Tolle’s message transform at least a few lives for the better. I know the same is true of your work also. I’d never try to convince anyone to believe in this or that person. I just don’t see the point. Either something is helpful to you or it is not. Luckily I haven’t run into a teacher yet who has asked me for blind, exclusive loyalty or all of my possessions, or anything that even resembles that. If I did, I’d run the other way.

Visible said...

Whoa!!!

I was looking for the money angle and didn't find it in my short search but I was sure it was there and you tell me it's $875.!!!!

Holy shit!!! That nails it. That's way beyond what I even expected. Stick a fork in him as far as I'm concerned. That is seriously expensive for living in the moment. it doesn't cost me anywhere near that much.

I'm going to read and listen to what everyone has to say but that is the nail in the coffin of selfless service.

Ben There said...

Okay, the $875 has nothing to do with Tolle. I'm not sure if we went to the same website there or if I'm missing something, but that fellow is not Eckhart Tolle.

I think I paid $19 for a used audibook cd set at Half Price Books.

Anonymous said...

I agree with you, Les.

What up with the lack of tough questions?

You give the news, but your last name ain`t Nesman.

I think that they`re just getting a certain crowd ready for one more 26,000 year cycle.

Visible said...

thank you Ben.

I've got to pay more attention. that's Kriya Yoga which is associated with Yogananda./ There's a lot of trouble in that organization at the moment. If you want some entertainment you should go to some of the Self-Realization Fellowship forums and take a gander at some serious wack city.

A friend on mine has been studying with them for years and he only pays ten dollars a month so I don't know what's going on there.

Ben, thank you so much for catching that. I'm very busy and didn't take the time to check; never a good idea. i can't thank you enough.

John said...

Sorry to confuse. Laughing and amused.

The $875 link was for kriya yoga, a home study course...but Master Yogananda never mentioned a fee. I thought it was free.

Please tell me it's really free. I didn't mean to hijack Tolle.

Oh wait. I found another one that's free, or thirty bucks for a CD.

http://www.kriyayoga.com/newsletters/minicd.html

Visible said...

Tolle got hijacked by the moment before you got started. Now he's stuck there and can't get out. (grin)


Ageless wisdom and real teaching is never free. The cost is struggle and experience. When they don't have that then they charge money.

Anonymous said...

all tolle's stuff is free already

power of now is an excellent audiobook

i wasn't impressed with tolle at first either because of the commercialization, but i found all his audiobooks/talks online for free as torrents and at this point i've listened say 50+ hours of his stuff

http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/4832378/Eckhart_Tolle

a lot of it is repetitive so just get power of now and listen to that

there's a lot to absorb

you might do more research before you write this sort of thing

a lot of people (probably those most in need of his message) wouldn't listen to him unless he had the fame, unless they had to pay, etc.

so those people can pay, but his stuff is still free for the rest of us

Marc said...

Dear Les,
It's not the person, it's the message. Just because I might need to tighten the bolts on my bicycle, doesn't mean I am forever under the spell of the first person to teach me how to use a wrench. Some people need training wheels to get started. Others don't even need training wheels anymore, they simply forgot how much fun it was to ride their bike. Encouragement and compassion can help people get up and ride on their own, and hopefully they will grow beyond going around the block over and over again. In the mean time don't worry, if Tolle is evil, then eventually his face will show it.

Anonymous said...

What Tolle and others of his ilk are peddling doesn't produce spiritual awakening, but spiritual anesthesia. I think they are a bit dangerous, but I suppose a warm, fuzzy place to sleep is what many are looking for.

Chiah

Visible said...

'anonymous' 6:04 maybe you should read a little more carefully and see how I presented it. I was more than clear about my confusion. I also stand by what I said AND-

torrents are pirate ware. Don't go giving the false impression that the Tolle people put that up as a favor to mankind. My music is available by torents too and I didn't put them up there.

I'm pretty suspicious of you now for misrepresentation.

I deliberately phrased what I had to say to provoke honest commentary. My tone was intentional for that very reason/ I expect it to get hot in here, I arranged it that way.

Anonymous said...

What Tolle and others of his ilk are peddling doesn't produce spiritual awakening, but spiritual anesthesia. I think they are a bit dangerous, but I suppose a warm, fuzzy place to sleep is what many are looking for.

Chiah

Anonymous said...

"Ageless wisdom and real teaching is never free. The cost is struggle and experience. When they don't have that then they charge money."
True.

Mouser

Anonymous said...

Don't cost no money, you got to pay with your heart..

"There is no need of understanding the language of the mantra, nor is there any need of mental speculation nor any intellectual adjustment for chanting this Maha Mantra. It springs automatically from the spiritual platform, and as such, anyone can take part in this transcendental sound vibration, without any previous qualification, and dance in ecstasy.

We have seen it practically. Even a child can take part in the chanting, or even a dog can take part in it."

Anonymous said...

I read a Tolle book and my one-word summation of it is "stupid". If there ever has been another megalomaniac with so frigging little to base his mania on, I don't know who. What a puke. What a phoney.That he is promoted by Oprah makes me suspect sinister sheep-leading forces behind his non-self-supporting "success". Tolle does not hold the tiniest, dimmest candle to the brilliance of Nisargadatta Maharaj in I AM THAT.

Zairian said...

Les, is it?
Can I follow you into the desert fawning and mewling? Do you need all my money?

You're right when you think everyone else is a little off, because they are. They're supposed to be: No Two Alike. If ever there is evidence that many seem on the same wavelength, be thrice as wary. And keep baking that delicious bread... It's wholesome.

I just accidentally stumbled over here, I think to give you a hug, and now I'll stumble on, but I love you and appreciate your dedication. Be at and extend peace.

Zairian

Anonymous said...

Bravo Visible,

I see what you've done and the effort in this comment section has not been missed [by me] either but for the same reason that people are defensive of Tolle for oversimplification they are also defensive because they like being spoon fed and Tolle chews their food for them which does nothing for the digestion and assimilation.

No one gains such prominence for rehashing old news unless they have been manufactured for that purpose. Intelligence services have been aware of the new age movement for a long time and certainly those who are out to destroy the adhesive quality of Christianity are aware of it.

Oprah by way of Wicca has her hand in it too.

You're to be applauded for presenting this in a combative way but, as I said, some people are not going to get your intention. Your serious thinkers will note the underlying consideration behind the button pushing.

I try things like this with my students now and again and it never fails that half of them knee jerk at the provocation without thought. Doing it at this particular site throws yet another difficulty in the way as people are not used to that here.

R.

Anonymous said...

"But it’s more than the words isn’t it? I know why it is and that’s why no credit should accrue to me."

Your humbleness is half the reason why your message is SO powerful.
It is a fact that pride comes before a fall.
Your humility is what is keeping you from from pride and thereby from falling - in the way 99.9% of so called 'light-workers' have fallen before.
You are fully correct, because all good things actually come from God, none of the credit is actually being accrued to you.

Peaceandlove

tim said...

maybe Tolle is just trying to make money from his knowlege of Advaita Vendanta or maybe it's Ramana Maharshi coming through the subtle realms.

Anonymous said...

Good or bad Tolle's 'job' is to put people to sleep. A dangerous thing when humanity is driving a bus towards a cliff.

He is a product that has its purpose. If anyone has the bully pulpit in these times and does not speak out about the crimes being committed is just as guilty as the perps.

brian said...

When I reached a point in my search where I felt I could use some help I was very suspicious and reluctant because It was clear that there are a lot of pretenders out there. But I decided that I would interpret that to mean that the archtype must be true and I would just have to sort through them one by one. I decided that two things in my experience were true: love and humor. Reality must have something to do with love and humor. I took a chance that Reality was set up in such a way that I could address it as a "person" and I asked for a teacher that was not limited by time and space to contact me. (I would have gone looking but I was in prison at the time and they were trying to give me 30 years.) I received a recognizable contact which I have spent the ensuing 34 years acting in response to. I had always envied Paramahansa Yogananda's description of his meeting with his Guru Sri Yuteshwar (spelling?) in the book Autobiography of a Yogi. I was given a similar gift of tacit recognition of my Guru. The recognition was profound and prior to anything any ordinary human being could say about it. And what any apparently "other" being has to say about it is of little interest, amounting simply to a revelation of the obvious limits of their own self-state. These matters are important and profound so people get passionate about them/IT. And some try to help each other avoid some suffering etc. as well as they can see, which if not enlightened, is not very well. Since this matter is so important, I think it is foolish to take someone's opinions as valid without doing your own investigation. If you are serious, you are going to investigate. If you are not serious, of course, it does not matter and you can talk for a very long time until you have suffered enough become so.

For the record, I received incalculable benefit from my contact with my Guru Adi Da Samraj, and continue to do so after 34 years. It would never be possible to "Pay" for it with any amount of money or life energy. You have stated that he is a fraud, and I am saying this is not true. I also second your opinion that you are just an ordinary man. Don't worry Les, it is very clear that you are not a Realizer at this time. You are in no danger of being mistaken for a true Guru!

Anonymous said...

Les,

whether or not tolle's people put the torrents up are beside the point IMO - it's available for free and tolle hasn't issued any statements condemning file-sharing or bemoaning the lost revenue

"torrents are pirate ware"?

really? - the most reputable studies show file sharing even increases revenue for all but the top 5% of musicians thru free publicity - the reason industry hates it is because it means they can't control content

i know from personal experience having bought CDs of artists i probably never would have heard of if not for torrents

you're right I didn't read your whole article - but i read enough to see what sounded like a lot of holier-than-thou stuff - am i wrong?

what's more important to you- the truth or "being right"?

personally, i think it's the alex jones listeners that are being put to sleep

i listened to the guy for years - a lot of the stuff he says is true - but most disinfo has to have an element of truth

i was always skeptical about the "luciferian" stuff he was pushing, and the way his whole approach seems to be fear and anger-based - but lately he proved himself a shill in my books with the way he came out defending bermas' tirade telling a caller to execute himself for daring to suggest hollywood is jewish-controlled

oh no no according to alex, the arabs control hollywood i think he said some time ago, the secret rulers worship owl statues and sit at the "council of 13" with the 13th seat left empty for the spirit of lucifer...

what's happening in israel/palestine is just "crazy tribal warfare" and its going to continue - it's always the US, not israel, that's behind the uss liberty or the ringworm children

and he's so very humbled to be the self-proclaimed "father of 911 truth", the "tip of the spear", the "forefront"...

i can't listen to the guy without starting to feel physically sick at this point

i'm not saying i agree with tolle on every point but i think you should listen to power of now before accusing him of hypocrisy (isn't that what you're doing?) - if you haven't yet

its free after all and i gave you the link

i think he's right you've got to have your own house in order before you set out to "change the world"

that's not a diversion from the accusatory crusade of jones et al, it just means that getting your own house in order is very urgent not only for your own sake but for everyone/thing - because ultimately you are not separate from the All

at least that's my interpretation



best wishes to you

m_astera said...

As I wrote to a friend earlier today, I don't worship at the feet of the craftsman who's been in the shop longer than me. I learn what I can and what I want from him, make it my own, and move on from there. I also pick up what I can from the fellow apprentices.

I've never read Tolle's books, though I've seen some of his stuff. Sounds OK to me, and a lot of people need an accessible (and possibly socially acceptable viz Oprah) place to start. Tolle appears to be good for that. Surely what he is saying is better than TV and consumerism.

Personally I have never been at all attracted to Hinduism, so when I click on your links and see Hindu, Hindu, Hindu, and maybe that's Tolkien, well to each their own but it's a turnoff to me. Note that I have read plenty of it, and gone to hear yogis speak. Just not my thing at all. No religion is.

The danger, the trap, I have always felt, is to set one's self up as a spiritual teacher and try to make a living at it. Not right livelihood.

Ram Dass, nee Richard Alpert, is a good bad example. Went to India, found the Be Here Now idea, wrote a book, and became some sort of 'guru' for the rest of his life, while continuing to debauch his audience and students as the predatory homosexual he was.

Lots more examples like that, most not as egregious, but what a spiritually stuck place to put one's self in. It's pretty hard to keep learning when you have to play spiritual master all the time. Those who worship you don't take kindly to any faults or failings that you can't explain away.

Then there are the truly evil mofos, the parasites hiding in the light, such as sathya Sai Baba. And there are incompetents who just happen to have the job, such as the Dalai Lama or the Pope.

As far as paying for knowledge, I have no problem with that. If someone knows what I want to know and can teach it to me efficiently, they are worthy of their hire.

The problem, in a nutshell, is that people love to give their power away to a hierarchy. Excuse my French, but fuck the spiritual hierarchy. We are all equals, all equal potential to the Creator, First Source. It's that holographic thing. Learn from your brother, thank him for his help, pay back or pay forward, make it your own and keep learning and growing. Don't waste your time looking for saviors or you may be stuck in a blind alley for a long time. There are no saviors outside yourself. None.

And allow people to find their own path. Some are serious, most are dabblers. When the student is ready, the teacher will appear is more or less true. If they still need a teacher. At some point one is supposed to graduate from the apprenticeship program and become a journeyman or adept, eventually a master. Of their own self.

But worshiping another human, kissing their feet and heaping praise on them? Gag me.

As someone posting under a Chinese name quoted on one of your blogs the other day, Be the lord that you wish to see return.

Be it. Don't expect someone else to do it.

Wayne said...

Ciao Les,

This reminds me of when I was involved with the Tibetan Buddhist scene. After H.H. the Dalai Lama won the Nobel Peace Prize, I volunteered to help at one of his U.S. appearances. When someone asked how this holy man could charge admission, I came up with the quip, "The wisdom is free. Delivery is extra." :)

I once entertained the idea of becoming a lama myself. I'm glad I didn't go that route (you aptly described the pitfalls of the guru path a while back) -- I could have ended up like these folks:

http://www.tibetanbookofmeditation.org/about-LC.html

Check out the photos further down. More fairy dust than I need! :)

Mucho blessings,
Wayne

rhitt said...

Hi les. Love your work and read you often..
re tolle.. We are all the same ingredients but are arranged differently with differing strong suits and weak ones.. I do astrological work professionally and have seen tolle's chart. He is living his destiny perfectly.. His nature is sweet and airy and he reaches people who resonate well with that.. Me? I am a lot like you.. I am built to deliver the message in a harsh and direct way and point fingers at the same type things you do. I am more like an alarm clock going off at 5 AM when you have a hangover.. I reach people who resonate more with a warrior spirit same as you.
I think Tolle is VERY good but he is just too soft for my taste at a time like this.. We need to also keep in mind that some of us are lucky to have been bounced around enough already that the rough ride ahead is not something to be feared personally but being empathic it does bother me the pain the asleep ones will have to experience..

Anonymous said...

Hope you don't mind my suggesting this link: Please take one hour to listen to the interview from last Thursday on KPFA with mayan shaman Martin Prechtel. He only does about one media thing per year.

No god-selling, no simple-answers, no chosenness, no maha-supreme-formulas. No fear of politics.
Just the practice of gifting one's own Beauty to the Holy. With Love, Humor, and Eloquence.
The training-wheel set will be disappointed, but not you, Les.

http://kpfa.org/archive/show/50
(This will be archived for about 9 more days)

Listen, then if interested, the website is:
http://floweringmountain.com/

respects,
bholanath
(word: quenched)

Visible said...

A few things...

Brian, you're going to have to show me where I called your master a fraud because I don't even recognize that name. In any case,. it's not necessary to diminish me as if that will suddenly rectify the situation. The best thing is to ask me why I think something and that way understanding can take place instead of what we have here. I'm sorry if I hurt your feeling but I was being provocative here in order to push buttons to get passionate reactions. It might have been stupid of me to do this just as it is ill-informed of you to make a point of telling me I'm just an ordinary guy. None of us are ordinary here.

If you're teacher is real then nothing I say changes that. You should know this and, like I said, I'm being over the top for a reason and that will be explained a little later on.

Michael... here you are again. When you're not sending me letters about Chavez you're making sure that everyone knows that I need to be cut down to size because you say so. I keep hearing about all the people you are offending over at the New Shangri La so I'm going to assume you're just pissed off in general as you generally are pissed off generally anyway. I hope you get past it. What you might want to consider though is that the way you formed your words in this comment here reveals a great deal about you that you would rather not have exposed.; Read it carefully and objectively and you will see what I mean. I would be glad to ask some of the people that you claim are kissing my ass to kiss your ass a little if it will make you feel better. Please consider the definition of 'kissing ass' and you probably will want to find a better term since that's incorrect no matter how you parse it. You'll get to be a super hero one of these days. we all do, no need to piss on others on your way since it doesn't accelerate the process. And... I haven't mentioned Chavez in I don't know how long. Is it some kind of extended echo?

Thirty years in prison. I know what that feels like. i was facing life about 25 years ago and actually did around four years off and on previous to that. Prison is a strange monastery.

I must say that this is entertaining so far. I made it pretty clear what I was doing and that doesn't seem to have made much difference has it? (grin) The problem with celebrity and the affection of others is that is can change at any time.;

Anonymous said...

mr tolle is definately missing something,yep its that divine spark he has probably had it beaten out of him by the salesmen who are trying to flog him to the masses.I feel a bit sorry for him really,but thats the way it goes.Hell is coming there is a job to be done and I will prepare my self each day by filling myself up with the feeling of love and applying it to everything I do ,the corrupted need uncorrupting,the unaware need to be aware and hatred needs love.Any thing else is like chaff in the wind.peace neil

Visible said...

Thanks Bholanath, will do. Would you please add that trick you found about posting comments? I think people need to see that again. I didn't pay as much attention as I should have the first go round. I'm trying to change that.

Visible said...

oops! just found it at Petri Dish


bholanath here -

I typed what I wanted to paste onto a Text Edit page. Moved the Text Edit page over to the side to where I could still see your Commment Frame. I then clicked on my written text (slid the cursor across so it turned Blue), then "grabbed" it and moved it over on top of your Comment Frame. Presto!

Hope this helps.
-bholanath

Anonymous said...

You're angry. Maybe you should concentrate that anger on those that are murdering, torchuring and cheating us rather than picking on tiny Tolle who is a pretty peaceful guy.

Channel your anger. Peace.

Cassandra said...

Thank you for your blog. It truly means a lot to me.

I am in agreement with you on most, if not all, of what you discuss in today's post and in past ones. You express my beliefs and understanding of the world.

I’ve had a lot of people, including relatives, try to push the "tolle booth" (and others) on me. Many people around me tell me I'm negative. They tell me I'm helping TPTB achieve their goals through my negative thoughts. They call me crazy, off the rocker.

Truth be told, I just can’t “get into" the Tolle stuff. It doesn’t resonate with me. I’ve lived long enough to trust my instincts. And I did give him--and many others--a fair chance. I've read a lot of sh*t and believed in it for a long time.

I will not close my eyes to the horrific reality we live in. Nothing makes sense. Nothing is “fair.” I’ve learned that. I know that. I’ve been burned. I’ve been enslaved. It makes every day a little harder –- harder because I’m surround by people who haven’t got a clue; harder, because I live in a box and I'm aware of the box and know that I can't get out (yet). I was clueless once, too, so I try to have compassion, but I'm losing patience...

I have hope that we will get out of this box. It’s going to be painful. Many won't make it. Maybe I won't make it. (Oh, the irony.) And that's OK.

I take comfort in the thought that, when all is said and done, we are just an experiment in, as you so aptly call it, a petri dish…

m_astera said...

oooo, Les, did I push your buttons? :p

Funny, the only thing in my note directed toward you was the remark about how the Hindu religion doesn't cut it for me. But you have to bring up private emails that I sent to keep you up on current events?

And tell me that no one likes me at Shangri La forum? You even had to tell everyone there that you have a personality conflict with me, and then drag it over here. Whoooeee.

Here's what's really funny: I don't have the slightest problem with you. None. So I guess it's all me.

Whatever else you were talking about in your reply, I have no idea. Maybe you should chill out a little and realize you are not the only one who uses different voices for different purposes. Some can even do it without getting their image too tied up in it. I have no desire to be special, thanks anyway.

Cheers,

Michael

Visible said...

and the beat goes on. No matter how I hint at it and express it; that this post was staged for a reason... those of you in a certain headspace about it please consider for a moment how very very different this is from any other Origami post. it should be obvious that I have made a departure for a specific reason. Once it's gone on for a bit I will get into that and I think you will see the point. In fact, the point is being made constantly.

As for Tolle being a peaceful guy. it is ideology that turns the engines of war, no soldier goes into combat unless ideals and motives are introduced by people who are not themselves warriors.

I'm not using Tolle as an example of that, just trying to say that behavior and commentary on one level can become something else down the line. Chomsky is a good example of a peaceful talking guy who presents himself as all the right things to a certain crowd. In reality Chomsky is a sinister guy. You watch him speak in that soft and obliging way while he's subliminally doing shady things. Once again, (grin) this is not about Tolle... just giving examples of things appearing as one thing and affecting as another.

My major problem with Tolle is that (it must be hidden from me) he does not have that certain atmosphere of one who is what he is claimed to be. this is just my opinion but I don't see anywhere near the qualities that generally bring individuals such a high level of exposure. it's that Marianne Williamson thing that bugs me. It is uncanny how he talks just like all the rest of the people from that area of expression but for some reason he's got much more serious juice.

As others have mentioned and as I have been noticing... he is very very heavily promoted. he's showing up in the masthead of my gmail page and there's some sort of a PR force that is very intensely doing a non stop name recognition thing with him. I am very curious about this. I'm getting some strange hits and my intuition in my own experience is more accurate than any other quality I possess.

So I'm looking to get as much input as possible which is part of the reason why I laid it out as I did. I'm just going to have to ask you to trust me for a little while. I believe I have earned that/

Anonymous said...

Church of Okra Winfrey aka Harpo Product(ion)s, had Tolle on to puff.
Okra also puffed the best seller, "A Million Little Pieces"about a drug addict as a true book.
It was a fraud and a lie. (anyone who's been to BFC or Hazelden several times could easily see the fraud). She promoted a holocaust book, by E-lie Weasel, I believe, made another best seller.
It was a fraud and a lie... one can go on and on. Z might not equal A, but enuf of a Winfrey pattern of promoting fraud and deception not to waste any money or time on Tolle (or anyone on Harpo).

Visible said...

What you say Michael is untrue.

"the only thing in my note directed toward you was the remark about how the Hindu religion doesn't cut it for me" you want to look back over your post in respect of this?

It's hardly a betrayal of confidence to mention that you mention Chavez. There weren't even any details.

You do have a problem with me Michael and it's about the sort of things people say about me. I don't solicit these comments so it's not my fault in getting them except inasmuch as they are a reflection of what I do.

The thing is that you've been especially aggressive and snarky of late. You've no idea what people reactions are apparently and I bring it up because this happens a lot.

I don't have a problem with anyone including Tolle... not insofar as it can be called something that keeps me up at night. I decided long ago just to put it out there and people could do what they want with it. Sometimes it has brought some pretty intense rage. it's gotten me thrown in jail and led to a couple of attempted murders in my direction. Such is the power of words.

But I speak plainly and encourage others to do so as well. i consider every criticism seriously. Sometimes it's completely without merit but I act upon it as if it were true.

I know what's going on with this particular situation and I don't know if it will ever be resolved but that may not be a bad thing. Out of conflict there often comes great results just as harmonious effort may do.

I'm mystified that you say what you just said here in respect of your previous comment. You don't see what you said? This sudden appearance of you also performing something similar to myself is down right serendipitous (grin). Sorry, I couldn't help myself.

People misread my intentions all the time. They're nowhere near a majority but it goes on apace and nothing can be done to alter it. Some mindsets are fixed and aren't even about the subject under discussion. it goes deeper than that.

So it's quite possible that my perception of you is incorrect or at least incomplete because I often see impressions from you about the way that you view me that doesn't jibe with my own self awareness. of course that could be flawed too (grin). It's not just negative things. It little stuff.

Anyway I'm always sorry to give offense. With me it's unavoidable sooner or later so I just take it in stride with the compliments and other things.

Conflict as I said can be good and I embrace it the way I used to do on the various playing fields that made up so much of my youth. It's invigorating.

So, if someone feels the need to slap me down or adjust my height I might respond to that any number of ways; ignore it. try to mediate it or tit for tat it. there are other options as well but this comment is going on too damn long and I need an American Spirit and a cup of coffee.

You could have just asked me to send you some a long time ago.

Anonymous said...

No fear Les - you 'get it' precisely!
You continue to do great work and just because you are not read by everyone doesn't mean you are not significant. And just because some are thought to be significant doesn't mean they are. (Now where did I get that from??)
Tony

Anonymous said...

Tony;
What kind of ass-backwards "complement" was that??
Nottony

Animadverto said...

Les,
I believe you hit the nail on the head. Anyone who is self actualized wants not to be called a master nor goes calling on one. Most of these people, in my opinion, are pacifiers. They are there to tell everyone that everything is OK. NO, it is not. Everything is not OK. When it hits the fan, I can assure you that these, so called, guru’s, will run for the hills to save their own A _ _. Before one can prepare for reality, one must acknowledge it.

Anonymous said...

the spark and the shift of awareness that happens within yourself but feels as though it is from another place,maybe from the heavens maybe from the earth who knows,when that spark fires up,all of the past reveals the lessons the bad the good,the soft the hard that needed to be learned to find the path that leads the way...peace neil

Visible said...

Nottony;

He was paraphrasing one of my mottos, "Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it isn't there and just because you can doesn't mean it is"

Inside joke.

Visible said...

Animadverto;

You've framed it just as I perceive it.

What I find very interesting is the California fires. I have long had the sensation that much of California is going to go up in smoke more so than the earthquake though that's sure to happen at some point too.

tim said...

Les;
As per Brian's master; you said the author of the "Knee of Listening" was a fraud. That author is Adi Da (Franklin Jones)

Anonymous said...

I have one of his books. It was picked up once, paged through, and put back down. I too for some reason left feeling...unease.

Something's off about this Tolle guy. Maybe it starts with his for-profit endeavor.

If his soul is guided by sharing spiritual truths, why is he amassing profit beyond his costs and needs?

Where do we find spiritual fulfillment in material acquisition? We don't - Tolle is bullshit.

Anonymous said...

There is a season, turn, turn, turn....for me it was Thomas Paine, Eckhart Tolle, Les Visible......I still refer back to all of them and learn something new each time--or, from time to time. Sometimes here, I learn nothing I don't already know--but as with the rest of what I read, or what rings with me, it might not ring with whoever you are-but it might next week-

Anything we read may ring for us and not others--

That "the message" gets through, in any way it can is the important thing. We are where we are when we are there, and then we are someplace else. I supported Tolle by buying his book (as well as some to hand out)and I have supported Visible in the past--I do believe that you should support those whose works you feed on, be it a snack, or The Full Meal Deal--but it seems I can't eat just one thing, my tastes are varied and I never know what my taste buds are going to be hungry for next.

I have never seen Tolle interviewed, or on Oprah, I don't need to, I guess I am a reader and got a lot out of what he has written---

I have gotten a lot out of Visible, but that has faded lately---then again, I see new folks in here, new, as I was when I came in--a way station of sorts along the journey--some stay, some move on.

Ben, you are so cool--I mean that--you are so much farther than you think you are--

Les, I don't see what you see in what Michael wrote--if what I think you see is what you saw--lol

As far as the money thing goes, there seems to be a hang up with that even when you give it all away--but then again, the government has been handing out money for years and it has not benefited anyone at the bottom of the food chain--as far as I can see anyway.

Before anyone nit-picks this apart, I used the words that came to me and could have gone on for hours but why bother--I didn't write everything or elaborate as much as I could have but hopefully this sums it up

"different strokes for different folks"

Jj

Anton said...

"sounds like bullshit chasing its own tale" - That is a good one! I call the followers of all these hucksters Mutual Masturbation Societies

Richard S. said...

I agree, Tolle is boring and has little if anything new to say. If you would like simple to the point info that will not confuse but challenge you to "stop thinking like a Human", check out the KRYON series books or Kryon.com

estebanfolsom said...

les

i've been back a billion years
and up around the bend
i was there when it all began
and also at the end
i've been trying a million faces
till i find one that fits
i've been looking out thru these eyes
to where eternity sits
and haven't i heard a thousand names
shooting thru space my way
hasn't it been a hundred ages
not one of thems yet to say
i am beyond all your words
and all your eyes can see
no thought can reach
no hand can touch
what i might really be

est

nina said...

Dear Mr. Visible:

We understand there is a problem and propose the following solution: From your initial appearance on the www, you have represented your person in the format of "Les" Visible. In recent complaints directed at various guru-imposters, you appear to ignore your original choice of the "Les" theme. If you prefer to remodel your presentation, we would suggest a feature adjustment to the popular "More" theme at no extra charge.

In addition, we are required to point out challenging your readership to experiments without being listed in our Quiz base will result in removal of up to one million hits from your hit counter. Sentiment software indicates your readership highly responsive to being fed.

Should you choose to stay reduced, we have a feature adjustment for that issue as well. Its absuredly expensive, will cost you everything you thought you had left and once you accept, there is no turning back.

We appreciate your business, but due to the overwhelming demands of a world out of control, we are forced to set standards that begin and end with ourselves. It matters none who agrees or endorses our policies, all that matters is they are our very own policies earned through long experience and the time proven test of the five senses.

Sincerely Yours.

Visible said...

Tim

Well here's another one of those things. I was just coming on to post about this and there you are with what I just found out.

Brian; I figured out what you were talking about. I'm sorry that I have this perception but it is fueled by things like this Da Free John.

This article is actually the kindest one that I've read about that scene. I've heard all kinds of tales over the years and some of them seemed frightening and dangerous depending on the temperament of those involved. You could see where I might get the idea about him that I got.

There's this thing about those people who declare themselves to be God where they have a dispensation to do whatever they want and it's all considered God's lila, or God's play. No rules apply. This is the case with quite a number of people who have the same explanation across the board. Since they are God they can do whatever they want.

I myself am a wild and crazy guy and some of the things I've gotten up to and been involved in are interesting tales when told by those around at the time. I'm in no position to criticize in that regard because I pushed the boundaries big time and was often immune to consequences. If you possess a degree of certitude you can get away with all kinds of things. Some of the stuff I did around violent drunken locals on Maui border on the unbelievable and nary a scratch on the Visible other than a few bruised ribs,

I'll leave others to recount these events because I'm not the guy to tell them. Anyway, so much for a disclaimer. This isn't my concern with this man. I didn't claim to be God, just looking for him.

I believe that you have a responsibility when you do have followers and I've seen plenty of Guru's sleeping with their disciples. I was with John Deruiter for a time in Edmonton and he's involved in some strange behaviors even as I speak and it's all rationalized and all of it.. From Rajneesh to Muktananda and the rest is the same rationalization. maybe it's true. I have no way of knowing but encouraging people to perform anal sex in front of you and an epidemic of drunken orgies seems to me to be a little over the top and this is just one aspect. There are many stories which I won't get into.

I'm the kind of guy that expects a spiritual master to behave like Ramana Maharshi or RamaKrisha, Yogananda. I think they have to hold themselves to a higher standard. Sure.. they can do whatever they want to but they 'choose' not to. Sure, maybe you can break people's patterning by tossing them into a cauldron of sensory debauch but I know that you don't have to. A realized master can awaken a person in many ways. My own master did it across thousands of miles of distance and it was a convincing event and not just for me and it was so powerful that the initial experience lasted for three years straight. That's an exceptional acid trip.

Visible said...

It's really a matter of style I guess and that's something that looks to me more like weakness and indulgence than mastery and, as I said, every single one of them has the same explanation.

My intuition tells me that it is not God performing these things but rather any number of entities who have an attraction for certain experiences. it's all god anyway- all of it, even the writing of this comment and the mind reading it. There is no movement at all that does not borrow the force from the one. There is no life at all except what is conferred by the one. There is no awareness except that given by the one. this is why there are no secret deeds or perfect crimes. The witness is ever present and very real. More real than we are. I have had that particular aspect made very clear to me. In fact, I would say that the most insignificant detail of my life is an expression of the relationship between me and my creator and it's pretty much all I can be aware of anymore. I've got very little to say about anything. It may well be true for all of us and what differentiates us- the only thing that differentiates us is our degree of awareness which is the particular amount of God conscious in us and all any life is about is the series of experiences that have to do with breaking through the crust of individual self awareness just like a seed in the ground. It is going to come out it's just a matter of when.

Well, I apologize for what I said about the man because I really don't know do I. I guess it would be nice to have my own new age millionaire to purchase my walled garden for me and the rest of us so maybe there's a teeny amount of resentment that he can do all those things while I strive to do what I believe to be the right things I don't got jack. Nah.. that's not it.

But you can see how I come to think what I did. And I'm going to get to the bottom of this Eckhart Tolle thing too. When I set my mind to a purpose then that's it.

But you see, I had no way of knowing that someone would be reading who was a convicted believer in this man. Ordinarily I wouldn't have said this regardless of what I might think. I know quite a lot about a lot of these people and I don't mention it because it's a kind of gossip no matter how you slice it and God will sort it out without my help anyway.

The real culprit is the mindset I put myself in before I wrote the post. Usually, even though I'm channeling what I write and it pretty much gets done with my doing very little of it, there's a certain introspection that is usually present and this time I shut it off for my own reasons. This would then be one of the casualties of the affair.

I don't know if what I am saying makes any difference now. That's in your hands but what I can tell you is that out of respect for your love of this man I won't mention him in this light again and I can tell you that I haven't mentioned him in any context in probably 30 years.

I generally stay away from that kind of thing for very good reasons with the exception of Tolle for which I have very good reasons (I think). I do believe my mentioning Tolle and writing this piece is going to lead to something. i don't know what that is but I've got the sense that it's going to lead to something.

I do criticize world leaders and those I believe are harming relative existence and I have mentioned Rajneesh once of twice but I can't even remember what I said.

Anyway, you have my 'sincere' apology for whatever distress this may have caused you and you can rest secure that it will no happen again.

Anonymous said...

m atera wrote: "And tell me that no one likes me at Shangri La forum?"

Michael, he didn't say that no one over there likes you-he said you are offending people, and that is true. I left that forum after your last angry, sarcastic outburst. I get anger, intolerance,grandiosity,and more anger,in the form of sarcasm, from your posts. In your first comment here, I also thought that you were ragging on Les-not simply expressing your lack if interest in all things Hindu. Your writing is sarcastic and provocative. I think you want to offend people...kind of like the 'narcissists" that you're always on about-any attention,even if it's negative-is better than none.

Chiah

tim said...

Les;
You know better than to believe what you read in the newspapers. The crazy-wise use endless ways to purify the ego. None of those ways are understood by people who take the newspapers seriously.

Anonymous said...

Kilaya here:

Hey Les,
I agree about Eckhart Tolle. I read some of his books years ago and they did not resonate with me, they are just "feel-good" information and have no way bring about and actualize a spiritual transformation.
I do feel that you have given HH Dalai Lama short shrift in this article. As he is constantly saying, he is only a simple monk, his religion is kindness to all sentient beings and he also reiterates that engaging in organized religion is not as important as having a kind heart towards others. I do believe that he recognizes the inability of Western students to follow the rigorous mind training which is necessary to achieve enlightenment. However, if you take a closer look at his own life, you will see that he has devoted his life towards helping others. Actually, it would not surprise me to learn that he is able to achieve more than one physical manifestation. It helps to explain his ability to teach for twelve hours at a time, his non-stop teaching schedule around the world and his continued health in spite of all his work. He really is an amazing individual.

Visible said...

Nina; thank you, I'll have my people get right on it.


And then there's the thing where the only other person I know who shares a similar wiggle about the exact same thing having to do with jockeying for position which assumes the other person (me) has to be jockeying too because that's what we see even though the seesaw is not moving on my end.

I've been aware of certain feelings from a certain party for some time and it's affirming to see it clearly presented and to realize that my initial take was justified.

There are people who believe that I do what I do for certain reasons because, in their case, were they able to do it, this is how they would see themselves.

I do believe that there are some who believe that I roll in the seeming adulation like a dog in a road side carcass. Quite truthfully I don't have much of a reaction I simply note it and think, "Well done God."

The truth is that I could never do what I do on my own. I have to have inside help. You might thank the doorman for holding open the door into the hotel but he had little or nothing to do with building it and is just a functionary. That's what I am and I know this too. it gets pointed out to me in the most interesting ways every day and were I ever to take myself seriously I would hear about it in nothing flat. No time is wasted in bringing certain things to my attention. You can well imagine that I am humbled in various ways all through my every day.

There was a time years ago when I thought my talents were my own but they aren't. What actually happens is that the heart of the reader speaks to me and that gets routed to the actual author who then adapts what follows to the next venture and which is the reason why so many people mention that what got said was just what they were thinking. In fact, it was what they were thinking.

There is a process going on here and we're all a part of it. Everything that gets said here is transparent. What is written by the blog author and what is written by the reader is all transparent. Those writing may think they have concealed their agendas but nothing is ever concealed. the interesting thing is that one can only experience the transparency when it no longer makes any difference to them.

As long as there is 'posturing' going on the posture conceals the evidence from the one holding the pose. it isn't concealed from anyone else but most of us are too polite to say anything. We shrug and go, "Well that's human nature, I've got my own share of it" That doesn't mean it isn't noted. it's just not as important to the person perceiving it as it is to the person posturing.

Visible said...

the truth is that the posturing has no real effect on anything. the only thing that really affects anything is what happens when the posture is gone and all of us have some amount of that in our days. the posturing is the ancient competition that the mind engages in as it seeks parity and even supremacy over it's fellows. But as long as the posturing is there the one in-posture will not have the juice to light the words in order to give them force so what they get is sort of like ballet as opposed to mudras. There's few things as artificial as ballet and it's interesting to note the crowd that indulges in it... afterwards they go to the Museum of Modern Art followed by a visit to someone's west side apartment.

There isn't a posture available, even to a contortionist that can blunt of diminish that which is without posture and anyone who operates without posture knows this with the certainty that what animates them knows them.

We've had a bit of a different dance here tonight and some people have drawn their swords all while insisting it is a pen and amusingly believing that others see a pen too; as if we were in a Mandrake the Magician comic strip.

What's come out is something already known and regularly observed over the passage of time and all these postures are fine with me as long as I don't have to wear one which is up to me anyway.

Truly being in the moment means being able to see the ultimate resolution of the posture so that there is a sort of natural indulgence in attendance. I'm told that this in the moment thing has a tendency to expand endlessly for as long as the posture is missing and eventually becomes infinity although it already is. Subsequently one can see oneself in everyone and every posture. One can see the efforts made by the posture to free itself while relentlessly affecting the posture (grin).

All of this is moving according to the nature of the post as it affects posture and that, of course, was expected. What comes of this is a thing of a different order and we shall see how it is that stones thrown in lakes ripple to the perimeter because that's what this posting is going to accomplish.

We'll be returning to the previous format (such as it is) after this but do expect the taste to linger and do expect portions of the text to animate when that part of the cold capsule dissolves in its time release manner.

We'll now be returning you to your previous posture already in progress. Oops, sorry, just realized that's impossible.

Anonymous said...

well mr tolle I suppose is just trying to live his life the same as any body else,I would rather meet him on a walk down the beach than bush and cheneys mob,myself I'm not addicted to shiney things so I see no reason to keep collecting them ,when half the world is starving and a lot of others are getting blown up,mr tolle obviously teaches aspects of the truth and touches a lot of hearts but lacks in other ways as we all do...may the potency of the truth touch all hearts and minds peace neil

Visible said...

Now look, what I said was "I don't get the Dali Lama either" and that's true. It doesn't mean anything except exactly that. I believe implicitly in the lineage of the Buddhas. I have a very strong personal connection to that particular route. But to be perfectly honest, I sort of threw that in there to see what happened (grin). I am really surprised that it took so long. I expected to hear about that one right away and I didn't. There are a few other things that have been generally missed to the moment or maybe people are sitting on them (more likely),

Tim.. I didn't read this stuff in the newspapers I got direct first person accounts. I move in those circles or I used to, so I heard quite a bit about the goings on there and the stories were consistent and somewhat more wild than that article says.

BUT... that's neither here nor there. Ive admitted that I probably shouldn't have said what I said and as I have (repeatedly) said, I was looking for particular effects which is why the whole tone of the piece is the way it is. I won't be doing this sort of thing again... well, I don't know do I? But I think it unlikely. this blog is about affirming things, not sneaking Petri Dish in through the back door.

I really hope that Brain can see his way to cut me some slack and I'll be grateful for that. I really don't want to hurt another person's heart especially someone who probably thought well of me until that point. That's a tough one. I had my reasons but I could have been a little more circumspect. I had turned that feature off.

There is the odd fact that I haven't even thought of that person in 30 years and the line just popped out, I didn't think about it at all. perhaps it was meant to generate this whole exchange and find a higher level of closure than the door we came in. I hope so and even suspect so.

Anonymous said...

Kilaya here:

One added note. If anyone has the time and inclination I would highly recommend reading HH Dalai Lama's fairly recent book, " The Universe in a Single Atom". Thought provoking, to be sure. I love the reference to Asanga, a great Indian master, who was taken to another realm of existence, taught many truths and upon his return, although he believed the span of time that he'd been gone was only 20 minutes or so, he found that all the people he knew had aged 50 years! I love that story as it shows how deluded we as human beings are.

Anonymous said...

Over and out

Visible said...

Hey Kilaya;

There's a great story in the back of Hesse's "Magister Ludi" after the end of the book itself, one of three short stories that tells a similar tale and I suspect Hesse took the format from the Buddhist tradition.

Anonymous said...

To all:

I have been casing through your website for a good portion of the day, and really
enjoying it. I thought our new Noam Chomsky piece would provide geopolitical food for thought and interest your content managers.

http://bostonreview.net/BR34.5/chomsky.php


All the best,

Jamie

Visible said...

Hmmm, insouciant, with an undertaste sassy and a hint of mint.

tim said...

les;
The newspaper remark was because the Da Free John link you provided was a report from a local California newspaper. I was a student of Adi Da for along time and know about that period of time firsthand also. Brian understands and I'm sure he'll cut you some slack. Genuine Siddha masters remain exteremly powerfull long after their deaths. You may have raised some eyebrows over at reincarnation central. :)

Anonymous said...

"As I said, I could be wrong but if I am then I am very wrong. Do you think people paid to get in to hear this?"
Yes, you are very wrong. Does it surprise you I'd be the one to say this?
I don't really know much about this guy apart from his name, but I did watch the video and I'll assume for the moment his shtick isn't an act. With that assumption, and in my opinion, he's legit. What he was trying to get across to his audience was the importance in developing a 'detached non-detachment' as a way to live a spiritual life. I didn't disagree with this, however it's a relatively advanced concept for beginners and he was so meandering and inarticulate I doubt many in the audience understood what he was attempting to convey. It appears he enters a semi-trance or theta state to moderate his inability to explain himself, I'm afraid it doesn't help much.
And as for whether or not people pay money for the experience, my questions are So What?
Why do you have a problem with that?
Why do you distrust money so much?
This isn't the first time you've gone on this anti-materialism tirade. Again, so counter-culture 60s.
It's nice to know while you have a pile 'just around the corner' you'll forgive the rest of us I hope who have to live by what wit we have. Be careful, as your attitude toward money can affect how long you have it and how effectively it's used.
It might surprise you to know that the way of the world as it is isn't that that some people consider free advice at best an act of charity and at worst, either an impingement or worthless and not worth acting upon, it's that most do.
So, what is a poor boddhisattva to do, as he treads his path through this imperfect world?

(kaching) ;-)

And you seem to have forgotten something I said before. Spiritual enlightenment need not walk with moral, creative, intellectual, emotional, or physical enlightenment, let alone fashion sense.
You might disagree with me, but as you're wrong already, go right ahead.

And why Tolle doesn't address the issues you (and I suppose I, although the only problem these days I have have about 9-11 is where is where the devil I can find two big square roman candles for my birthday cake)have about the world is because, in the context of what he was discussing, those specific issues are only as relevant as you need them to be, to live a spiritual life.

Lukiftian

Visible said...

Tim;

God I hope you're right. It would mean a great deal to me.

I definitely don't want to annoy the people at reincarnation central. And the real truth, as I have stated is that I don't know. I honestly, fundamentally to the core do not know and everything I think I know is a hindrance looking for an exit unless I see it first and boot it's ass out the door which I have to do all day long anyway. You'd think these thoughts would give up after awhile but it's a full time job.

I've seen and heard about some seriously crazy (illumined?) people in my time with fantastic stories attendant like Trungpa Rimpoche and others who did things that no one else could get away with and which were 'teaching moments' (what a phrase; usually used by people who don't learn anything).

It's funny how things come into the parlance like the word 'conflate' now appears all over the place which means I can't use it now. "boots on the ground" was another one.

Well, this post is going to maybe have the highest comment count ever. There was a Smoking Mirrors that had around two hundred or more.

This is what you get when you do controversial. I realized some time ago that I could seriously widen my audience by jazzing up the word play the same as I could get wider exposure for my music by writing certain types of songs but that would probably lead to snorting cocaine so that's out (grin)

Anonymous said...

does anyone look back at some of what they read years ago and find it...well, basic?

from the sounds of things in here, it may be well to remember your roots and what at the time looked so over your head, yet now, looks like kindergarten.

it all comes in the form we can understand at the time--baby food--then our appetites and tastes increase as we experience, and can be trusted, with more.

from all of the book titles thrown around in here at times (keeping up with the jones's?) I would have thought some of you would have reached enlightenment years ago if not god-like status--

but most still seem to be chasing their tales and like the smell of their own ass.

Jj

Visible said...

Lukiftian;

"and he was so meandering and inarticulate I doubt many in the audience understood what he was attempting to convey. It appears he enters a semi-trance or theta state to moderate his inability to explain himself, I'm afraid it doesn't help much."

This is pretty much what I indicated. i don't' see the clarity or the divine analytical wisdom. I see a slow motion mynah bird.

You know, for some reason you seem to be under the impression that I am sitting at your lotus feet. That's incorrect. You'd have to change those hot pink socks first.

Are you aware (of course you are) of this little tactic of yours to praise me mightily in one post and then thrash me in the next? I don't think it matters what the post is, you just stick to the routine.

It really isn't any of your business what I do but you seem to think you have some sort of say in the matter and you don't. I read your redundant diatribes and get various forms of amusement from them like when you botch the definition of materialism or when you imply I've got something against money.

This is my work and I might be able to live in a drain pipe outside of Calcutta on the proceeds so... obviously I have other means of support. I have invisible means of support that unfailingly sees to it that I have every thing I need and I've been doing that for close on a couple of decades now. Well, I always did it but the coffers finally got to a comfortable level and are due to increase exponentially within a short period of time.

I'm actually going to have a great deal of money though I don't need it. I do need to finance this community so I'm going to use it for that and give the rest away. My words stand here to convict me if I don't but enough about me, let's consider you...

I wrote a rather lengthy comment a short ways back about postures. You are sort of a poster boy for that vignette. You can pretend to be a Chinese gymnast as far as I'm concerned and you would probably be talking Chinese too which about sums it up actually.

If some portion of your critique, some extraordinarily small portion of your ongoing repetitive critique like something written on a dust mote by a bed bug with fleas eyelash rings somewhat true, you may be sure I will consider it and take it to heart,

but this you should take to heart. When I sit down to write something I don't think to myself what would Luftikian think? I don't have to justify what I do or adjust what I do to the tastes of someone whose only agenda in some kind of frottage dressed up as a bitch slap performed by one. Because, after all, it's just bitchiness and I'm familiar with it (from a distance). In fact I don't have to justify or adjust what I do to anyone's taste and I don't. I just put it out there and you will note that the overwhelming majority has a different level of appreciation for it than you do so.... which of you is right? The ninety nine percent or the lonely and enlightened bitch slapper who doesn't even manage to properly critique so as to cover the real issues where I am lacking and working on as I go. You're sort of like T.S, Eliot with Downs Syndrome. He was an excellent critic because he had that special objectivity that is free from personal coloration's where the critic is trashing something he himself cannot duplicate and for that very reason.

I don't mind. it would be nice if your criticisms were useful. I'm always looking to improve so. I must admit to a certain amount of disappointment. It's not that you lack the intelligence, it's the chops.

Since you get such a thrill looking to lambaste me every other day; why not make it worthwhile, then we'd both profit and here's a good start, don't confuse the subject matter which the elements of style that's an embarrassing thing to do when you are in the company of people who can spot it.

Carry on.

Visible said...

Well gee. its not our fault you're so far ahead of us. We'll catch up eventually. Isn't there some adult food you should be eating up there in the treetops?

Meanwhile, would someone crack me a jar of that Gerber's banana? I love that stuff.

Anonymous said...

Bhaktisiddhartha Dasanudas:

"In 1991 I had the good fortune to attend a retreat with His Holiness the Dalai Lama at a remote lake in the Vermont woods. During that retreat, which was only for monks, the Dalai Lama revealed in a private audience that he was the last incarnation of the Dalai Lama.

"I am the last Dalai Lama," he said, "there will be no more Dalai Lama after me." When I asked him why, he replied, "You are a disciple of Bhaktivedanta. You should understand that now there is no more need for me here. Tibetan Buddhism is the past; your instructions are for the future. This is a very wonderful thing." Then he laughed. At least the Dalai Lama has the wisdom to accept the inevitability of the coming changes, and make a graceful exit from the scene in harmony with the times, befitting his exalted spiritual status."

Anonymous said...

You hung with John De Reuter? I'm sorry I have to do this Les, but :D :D :D.
Wow, one degree of separation, who'd've thought. I'll bet we have mutual acquaintances. I told one of them while Johnny ain't Jesus, he might be John the Baptist. He is the door someone will walk through to much worse things.
I met De Reuter about fourteen years ago. He was sitting in some bookstore on Whyte avenue talking to some chap dressed in a yellow sari and turban. I eavesdropped and made a few remarks.
Years later a couple of astrologer friends of mine invited me along to a 'gathering'.
I was told what to expect, and I asked myself, 'what does one wear to a soire such as this?' and I decided as I walked in the door to invoke my old friend Ravana.

Ah, such pleasant memories...

I can't say Johnny's evil, but the entity he's connected himself to is quite ummm... 'amoral', even alien, I'd say. In a Lovecraft kind of way. So some might say evil, evil, evil, but I say, if offered sass, go for it!

Les, I've been able to read through these comments this time and most of your responses to them have been bullcrap and backpedaling, sprinkled with a heavy helping of inconsistency and self-contradiction. Maybe a glass of wine would help?
I don't think Tolle is of much significance, but I suggest you do some digging and see if he's connected in any way with the Lucius Trust. If he is, there may be cause for concern. As for this being an unusual post for Visible Origami--- 'pfft!'


Lukiftian

Anonymous said...

It's my belief that most of the so called 'New Age' prophets and teachers are just useful shills for the Big Boys.
Some of what they say can be considered as useful to some...but is more like stating the bleedin' obvious to others.(--_--)
No matter how chilled out and living 'in the moment' you are it's not going to do you a bloody lot of good when the jack booted neo-facists are taking away more of your freedom and kicking your front door in.
As for the Oprah connection....correct me if I'm wrong but didn't she just make an appearance not long ago at some big private conference discussing the merits of global depopulation.
R4E.

David said...

I never fail to love the conflict.

Re: Tolle: It is true that even following the false can lead to the truth, but I do not have the time to waste, too many lessons in this round, and I've slept too long already.

Well Lyrical Sirius, you may be early claiming the title, but the more of your lyrics I experience, the more I feel that your claim may only be just a bit too soon for prudence.
Although you often state your limitations, you seem to show more consistant connectivity than I presently enjoy.

Thanks for the re-grounding, I want you to know that your finger pointing the way (or is it just getting stuck in my eye?) is appreciated.

nina said...

I don't see where anybody has really addressed the root in this discussion, unless I missed it or it was sent in and not yet posted. The world we inhabit, the nightmare, the self-representatives interacting with self-representatives, the path narrows infinitesimally, we are supposed to not know for sure which way to go or whom to trust. Confusion is impressed upon us exactly as is the drive to war, to buy, to hold prejudices, to be selfish, to lie and cover up deeds, to posture, to hold the high moral ground, it is only another part of the bigger problem, call it DNS hacking, call it harvesting the soul, giving you something that looks a lot like where you meant to go, but is a malicious detour designed to generationally entrap. Substitutions for the real thing can only become more pervasive as we enter the Revealing. Why not? Look what passes for the real thing already.
Its not fortune that you are talking about, you are talking about worship of the false and how easy it is, and growing easier, to hijack the unaware. Easiest of all when there is a little reach involved, like Bernie being so selective about his investors, all of whom were certain they knew better.

Anonymous said...

Whenever I'm straying too far towards the crowd, THAT voice says to me --

"You are getting sheeepyyyy....

Very, very sheepy

Ben There said...

Are you censoring me Les? (ha)

I've made at least one comment that isn't appearing which sucks because now I can't remember what I said anyway (must not have been that important).

I'll play this game and repeat, I think Tolle is the real deal. Oprah's endorsement isn't enough to wholesale delegitimize his authenticity. Oprah also liked Martin Luther King and I don't think that automatically means MLK was a superficial corporate sellout. Eckhart's message resonates with my personal experience, which although limited in relation to some, has been quite powerful for me. My search - while again imperfect - has been sincere and determined. Tolle isn't a dangerous cult figure. If he is I will say a small prayer that you can prove me wrong. Show me where he's asking for all of one's possessions, or to abandon one's family, or sex with one's teenage daughter, yadda yadda. Anything along those lines and I'll renounce Tolle.

Jj - About a month ago when you said something at my blog, I looked at my wife and said, this Jj guy is so cool. No kidding. There are a number of kindred spirits here and on that note I'm so glad to see Tony again. Nina too.

brian said...

Les,
thank you for the apology.

I needed to say something, because, like you, I feel a duty.

I enjoy your provocative word-play here very much and I heartily respect your sincerity, courage, and silver bullet wit.

Anonymous said...

In agreement with Ben There. I also say Eckhart Tolle is the real deal. And may there be many more unique real deals. May each of us show up as the real deal! As it says in a famous influential book, "Let the just person thrive and flourish like a palm tree, and be multiplied like the cedars that are in Lebanon." Or like the cedars once did grow in Lebanon and could again.

The Poster Formerly Known As Ellis

Luke said...

Over 40 years ago I knew a guy who fried his brain by sniffing model airplane glue. Hank was only about 19 and we were about the same age. The flower children were part of the scenery as it was the late sixties and everything associated with the drug culture was hip. Well Hank would get carry on and talking like this gentleman Tolle is talking but much more energy and all the kids at the local hamburger hang out would be slack jawed listening to the guy and going,"oh far out man",and then Hank would start lighting matches and letting them burn down to his finger tips and letting them start to burn his fingers tips saying "help me". And no one would think of blowing out the matches, but I would notice and blow them out and then I would say "knock off the shit Hank",and then I would load him up in the car and take him home. He shot himself in the head sometime in 1970 before I was drafted. Hank was for real but this guy Tolle is not but he has the same kind of mind-screwing nonsense that used to come out of Hank's burned out brain. Go figure. You want to sit around and listen to this,you go right a head. I've heard it before,from somebody with a much better delivery.

Anonymous said...

Dublin Mick here

M Asteri reminds me of someone who has read a few good books and has all the answers. To casually dismiss Buddhism and various Hindi concepts tells me all I want to know.

What could a doctrine thousands of years old possibly have to offer us? Yes salvation is ultimately up to us but the best painters are ones who serve under the masters. It is the same for sculptors as it is also for seekers of truth.

You will probably be enlightened someday on some planet eons in time from now. The shortest route is a straight line however. You may possibly learn that various metals and yogic exchange of energy enliven the brain and the chakras by day dreaming but I doubt it.

This idea that I can do everything for myself is ego driven. It reminds me of someone who has read all of Stitchin's books and now thoroughly understands all about the Nefilim, evil reptilian's all who are controlling us.

It is true this planet is well run by Lucifer's legions but that does not include all the Nefilim.

Never mind that one third of the Nefilim were cast from heaven and now reside on planet earth. What about the other two thirds of them who still reside on the home base? You know Michael, Gabriel, Raphael.

I certainly don't claim to be enlightened but it doesn't take me very long to see when someone is speaking from the heart and Les is for real.

All any of us can do is speak from the heart. Buddhism tells us there are twelve heavens. Spirits incarnate here from all levels and many people here in human bodies were a bird or perhaps a tiger in their last lifetimes. They have many lessons to learn.

We are not all equal. We may be equal in the sight of God but not equal in the lessons we have learned during various incarnations.

The one we refer to as the Lord is from beyond the twelve heavens and none of us can possibly hope to achieve his consciousness for a very very long time.

Nevertheless we should all aspire to the teachings of Kahlil Gibran to become a spirit so big you can use the Milky Way as a footstool.

I don't remember which dissertation Les described the spiritual teachers dressed in white flowing robes with the autistic smiles on their faces but it had me laughing for quite a while.

It was a Shirley McClain, Oprah type moment.

kikz said...

hi les,

a reply to your reply..on tolle. cripes! whatta day, been tryin to get back to ya since b4 lunch! long day i've been up since 03:A

maybe.... i paid my tolle somewhere else along my other hiways/byways? :D

it's always good to take note of differing opines from people you respect. :)

maybe there is something missing there - that i've missed? wouldn't be the first time. i'll keep an 'ear on it' for sure, and i appreciate your impressions.

the PR/oprah hype bothers me also. i have no way of knowing what sort of human lampreys have attached themselves to the 'nutty half professor', that he may have taken notice of and deemed them inconsequential to his stated task, teaching. or, thru inattention hasn't noticed them at all....*shrugz?*

having some experience w/like types...from my initial impressions... i'd categorize him as 'the distracted/eccentric/socially inept/professor/mad scientist' as he exhibits some qualitatively similar characteristics to these 'colorful characters' i've known and worked w/.
possibly that's why i just don't find him that 'far out' or 'off the beam' in his mannerisms or delivery, and he is a bit on the 'following his quite large lunch of honey, pooh bear ruminates on life and a nap under a large tree in the 100 acre wood' side of the divide.. or even a mr. rogers.. if that reference rings a bell....

the gold lame' vest was definitely out of left field *eyeroll* on that particular vid... but who knows, he could show up in bunny ears some day... wouldn't bother me. :) i try to listen more than look, and definitely would appreciate some q/a sessions on current events to round out my initial, singularly dimensional impressions of him.

as hard as i've tried to find the rub...the core message jives w/many other things that have stood the test of time.

people can/do lose sight/touch w/life, haunted by/living in the past (and/or) pining for the future, neglecting the now.
and yes, ego can and does fuck one up.
tolle sez, 'check it... a runaway ego can make you insane... ease up, breathe and come back to the now.'

to me he's just 'another thread' in the tapestry, weaving its way thru time. :)

as you have such a bad vibe, i'll try to refrain from suggesting others peruse his vids... until either of us can 'nail it down'.

:)

Anonymous said...

In reference to the jack boots that will be coming, not really. Why would they need such a thing when the masses are plugged into to their there electronics control boxes that come in a variety of colors, shapes and sizes? They only need those harsh measures for a small minority who just won't plug in.

This has been repeated a number of times and I can't help myself I will repeat it again. Those like Tolle are meant to pacify and distract, to say a lot of nothingness and to keep people staring at their navels. A drug by any other name. it is working is it not? Hey, this gov is about as criminal as it gets and only noise is some chatter on the www. that is why they can rip off trillions, yes trillions, and nothing happens. the masses are plugged in and controlled already. Why go through the hassle of camps and black polish?

"Yes folks just watch the pretty lady up on the stage. (turn up the music and lights joe) yes just keep staring at the sparkles on her breast. pay no attention to the little hands emptying your pockets".

It's not coming, it is here! That is what Gaza was about and maybe 9/11. to tell us they are in control or think they are. :)

They do have some problems like what to do with all of those "feeders" after they have emptied their pockets. Did I hear Soylunt Green?

AMICUS

ps: the game will get much more interesting now.

m_astera said...

Les-

I'll be as even about this as I can, not meaning any offense. You seem to think that I am envious of you, or wish that I was doing or could do what you are doing. Honestly, you are not that important to me, nor do I have any envy of you, nor have I ever. I read here because I enjoy some of the things you write, and some of the comments.

That said, you might want to read my first comment again, in the spirit in which I wrote it, which was commenting on the ideas brought up in your essay. The ONLY part that was addressed to you specifically was the comment about Hinduism. The rest is my take on the subject matter of your post.

If I wished to criticize you personally I would make that clear and there would be no ambiguity about it. You have not stepped on my toes here, and nothing you wrote in the essay offended me. My reply was to the essay and the subject matter, not you personally, so get over it.

I have my own thing that I do, my own projects and people I work with, and they are only vaguely connected with anything you do. We both, I think, are working to make a better world, at least that is our goal, and we each have our own ways of going about it.

Here is a personal critique: IMO, it is not wise to criticize a subject you have not studied in some depth, and it does not appear that you have studied much of what you seemingly lump under the heading of New Age. How do you know what it is if you haven't given it more than a cursory glance? Is your intuition and discernment that infallible? Are all of these people who you categorize as New Age equally deluded? Can you tell by the clothes they wear? And what is your definition of New Age? Anything post-dating the Vedas?

When you brought up Tolle a few days ago, you linked to a page as. apparently, an example of what hucksters and scam artists these people were. I went there and read the page. It was a free, multi-hour series of interviews with various better-known teachers of modern times, Tolle among them, done by Bill Harris. Free. Do you know who Bill Harris is, or what he has done? Do you know anything about the people he was/is to interview? Whether you agree with them or not? Yet you toss this out as an example to be made fun of, it seems. No one can know anything unless they are of the Hindu tradition, or possibly Native American or Buddhist? Because why? Because new truth stopped coming in several thousand years ago, and the only thing worthwhile is the old stuff?

I don't think it is wise to disrespect or pass judgment on things or people you know little about.

Again, personal, but you seem to have no problem with that on this public forum: Some months back I traded a copy of my book for your book, The Dark Splendor. Even though I seldom read fiction, and never murder mysteries, I spent a day and a half of my time reading it, partly so I could understand better your outlook and style. Did you ever read my book? I doubt it. If you had, you would understand why I have no need or wish to be you. So, perhaps you could take a half hour of your time and read this excerpt and come to some understanding of what it is I do and why : http://www.soilminerals.com/TIS_Ch1.htm. Feel free to rip me up.

Michael

Anonymous said...

You are right. You just don't get it. Maybe come back to it later. When you are ready, you will get it, no doubt.

The thing that really did it for me was the exercise where he asks you to observe when the next thought will come along. I think he says watch for that thought like a cat watching for a mouse.

psychegram said...

Well, damnit. It's 3:40 in the morning and I just spent like the last hour reading the post and the 88(!!!) comments it generated. This has been all sorts of entertaining ... first the New Age baiting, then the attendant conflict (with a Visible-m_astera match, no less! Which I shouldn't be enjoying so much only ... I love you guys, so right now I'm watching this in the spirit of a couple of older brothers wrestling in the living room. Just don't break the glass coffee table, eh, guys?)

Never read a word of Tolle. Like others here, he was on Opera and that's all I need to know. Oh, right, and the one woman I know who's deep into Tolle? Not someone I'd ask for advice. On anything. Got maybe three minutes into that youtube clip and, yeah ... he's human ether, and not the luminiferous kind either.

Those other faces you linked ... wow. You could see the Light burning through their eyes. I know that Light, I run into it now and then and it's always from people who, I've now learned to instinctively recognize, Know. They are Aware. Between us I know there is no need for debate or argument of anything save the finest of details ... and I know this in respect of how brightly that Light shines.

As for Tolle, he's nothing new. Other forces have been hijacking legitimate spiritual knowledge for thousands of years now. That's why everyone here more or less has such a visceral reaction against organized religion and (I'll further posit) has had for some time now: an early, instinctive, even intuitive awareness that there was something just off about Church, or those weird monks in the airport, or that crazed cult, or the hypersexed newage guru groupies or ... Hinduism, for that matter.

Lotta baggage, Hinduism.

But a lot of very good stuff, too.

When it comes down to it, it's not whatever system you're following, it's who you are and whatever degree you manage to realize just who that is. The rest is just window dressing.

Tricky part is, there's people can tell you that and use that to keep you getting any further at all with it....

Visible said...

Very well said Psychegram. Kudos!!!

Visible said...

Well, enough has been said by now so that I can explain what went on here with this matter; at least my end of it. I should add at the beginning that whatever I had to say about Tolle should not be considered a judgment on him. I was expressing my opinion and trying to give some idea of how his work hits me. Knowing that there was going to be some amount of disagreement among the readers here was one of the reasons for writing what I did.

Over the last year or so several readers have suggested that I read Tolle
and most recently Stephanie recommended it as a possible remedy for what
she thought might be my state of mind. Unfortunately, my state of mind as presented in the post, "A Fly on the Wall of a Cosmic Nightmare's End" was a fabrication, a literary device that was meant to convey a mood in concert with the fictitious dream that I didn't actually have. I've had what I call prophetic dreams on occasion. This wasn't one of them. As I said, I didn't have this one at all.

I'm hoping I don't upset Stephanie in respect of this disclosure
and my position on Tolle. It just so happens that her comment
was the catalyst for my writing about Tolle. This was all
about breaking eggs to make omelets. A lot of people are not going
to enjoy a tuna fish, ice cream omelet. It's an acquired taste. So
we got what we got.

Here's what I said to Susanne before I wrote this post. It's not verbatim but it's close.

"You know, there's something going on with this Tolle guy.
Some of it reminds me of the celebrity of Chomsky and a few others.
I’ve run into a few people who think highly of Chomsky and mention
his name at various opportunities. However, when I asked them to give
me an outline of what he actually does and what he has said and done
they had only a very vague idea. It was just a name recognition thing
with them no different than being aware of various celebrities who appear in the MSM. Some of them couldn't even name anything written by him.
I engaged in these fact finding excursions for the same reason I'm going to write about Tolle. I want to see how closely what happens mirrors what I expect.

"There's some very heavy PR work going on around this Tolle character and I can't figure it out. He's not a dynamic speaker by any means and his rehashing of certain basic spiritual truths possesses less value than that of any of the people who said these things long before him. It's a very Sesame Street way of doing things and there's no ground breaking or earth shaking features about his presentation of it. Quite frankly, he puts me to sleep with his soporific tone and he doesn't seem to be in command of himself at all. He acts like someone who got out of a Japanese prison camp. He's disordered and disoriented and I can't seem to get what his point is. He says all kinds of things but I don't see a progression of steps in his theme which leads to definite changes.

Visible said...

'People are insistent that I read him and now he's appearing like internet neon in my infrastructure. There's something going on here. The phenomena is out of all proportion to what I perceive to be the reality of the thing. There are some people who are aggressively loyal to him which is also way out of proportion to any reasons I can see. I'm mystified. “Well, you know how it is with me Susanne, I'm not going to find anything out unless I write about it. I'm going to do something different this time to see what happens. I don't really care one way or the other about Tolle. For me he's the spiritual equivalent of watching golf or NASCAR on TV and there might be more than just the obvious parallels here too.

"I'm going to do an 'in your face' caustic and bombastic article and see if I don't get exactly what I am anticipating. I think this is going to bring certain people in particular out of the woodwork and may even lead to harsh things said and hurt feelings. I know a couple of the people are pretty caustic in general so it should make for some interesting fireworks, I suspect it's going to get more comments than any other Origami post and it's going to be a bad idea as well as a good idea. It needs to be done though because there's something going on with this guy that is not what it appears to be.

"When I watch him talk there's this sonorous and soporific persona going on that seems to me to be putting people to sleep and even containing some hypnotic technique. It's the very opposite of what I would expect from something as dynamic as being in the moment which also implies being more energized and alive (I think).

"It's giving me an itch on the inside of my head Susanne and it's not a positive itch. It's like what I imagine a subliminal commercial does.

"This guy has the stage presence of someone like Ben Stein when he does his laconic act and yet I can already sense that there are going to be people who are going to jump right out on this and get insistent about it.

"You know how I get the feelings about people? I'm getting that now. I'm getting the feeling that Tolle is like some kind of alien and that there are others who are going to start appearing for crowd control as the world situation escalates. People have no idea how crazy and terrifying the world may soon become. It's been dramatically accelerating right in front of their eyes for years now and they don't seem to make the connection. I can't shake the feeling that Tolle has some part in this. His appearance on Oprah was not accidental anymore than the cabal she got involved in to support Obama and I don't see it as a 'black thing' at all. She was meeting with some serious, non-benign heavyweights about population control recently too. Something is going on in the heartland besides FEMA camps and posse comitatus flaunting troops on American soil. I can't put my finger on it. It's like it's happening in broad daylight but for some reason we can't see it. It's like comtrails and cellphone towers. People are shuffling in a hypnotic torpor. Something has to be causing this. Everything has a staged quality about it. I can't put my finger on it so I'm going to do a microcosm thing at Origami and sort of metaphorically piss in the pool. I'll bet you there's an instant polarization with most people agreeing with me but a surprising number not.

Visible said...

"I want to see what goes through the heads of the readers of the blog when this happens. I think it's going to be very revealing. I'll bet you there's more uproar than if I said something about Nelson Mandela. I'm even going to throw in the Dali Lama and see what kind of comparison reactions I get. I'm going to leave off with the measured and introspective kind of thing I usually do and talk like one of those loud guys in a bar.

"For some time I've noticed a small collection of readers who are growing increasingly unhappy with the positive things people are saying about me. They let it out in small ways telling me they don't want to come around a particular blog anymore because there's nothing there for them and they're past all of that. They seem to think I have some kind of duty to write for them and when I don't engage in that way; I have no idea of what 'that way' is, then they get sort of huffy and act like I'm not giving them a particular kind of attention. Some of them are upset because I'm not complimenting them enough and not singling them out for notice but I don't like to do that because everyone has equal importance to me. Some of them are special to me like Nina, Hank, and The Village Idiot because they see things so clearly and don't lose their sense of humor and some of them like Amicus, Glenn and Zoner, among others, hit me on a distinctly human level.”



DIGRESSION: I very definitely left some people's names out and I am sincerely hoping this doesn't cause any injury. I just can't remember everyone in any particular moment. I try pretty hard not to hurt people's feelings and I probably have done this here. But many of you are in email contact with me and you have evidence of my affection for you. You have no idea just how many people write me and it's tough trying to stay on top of it.



Okay... let's leave off what I said to Susanne. There's more but I can't remember it. As you can see, writing about Tolle caused some very interesting responses and stronger than one might expect. He's not a guy- doesn't look like it to me- that would command such intense loyalty. He's kind of shy, retiring and confused and he's so platitudinous and droning. I'm thinking there's something going on here. It feels like there's some kind of technology involved. Maybe I'm being a little too conspiracy thinking and fantastic but I have no other way to explain it. It's downright spooky and everyone can see what it caused here in the comments. And he isn't saying anything new or startling at all. It's got the feel of frothy pop culture for people who aren't really inclined to be dedicated to the degree needed anyway. I sense no light in him. I get none of the feelings I usually get when someone has got their lamp lit and everything he says is so self-evident to begin with. I just don't know.

I think we are going to be seeing some surprising connections about all of this and I have been finding it very difficult to get any financial data or much of any kind of data in connection with his organization and that's strange too. It's not there. Maybe someone can help me out here.

Visible said...

In conclusion. I really did not want to hurt anyone's feelings. At the same time I'm not going to dance around with people and play patty cake. I note every snide remark. I notice every interesting mention of someone's name which is meant to act as solidarity and be a half visible slap at me at the same time. We don't have to agree on everything here and it would be weird if we did. But we should always keep our sense of humor around. A couple of you are not in possession of yours at the moment (grin) and that's why you felt like you had to make nasty digs and use scatological commentary. I'm fully aware of your ongoing polarization with me AND some of the discussions you have had with others about it AND which you are unaware of. You'd be surprised. These are all ego games and we need to check them at the door or we won't get anywhere.

I flat out apologize for all the complementary and laudatory things people feel inclined to say about me. I've been at pains to make you understand that I am just a work in progress, not a spiritual teacher who needs to sit on a dais. I purposely expose warts just to make you feel better but it doesn't work. People read these things and they feel like they're being ignored or not recognized for some presumed brilliance or capacity to juggle.
Many of you have far more talents than I and some of them are very useful. We all help as we can. I devote my entire life to what you see here which includes the music and books I am working on and keeping up with the constant flow of emails and which, sometimes due to a pressing need, can take a long time to complete. It's a good thing I don't have a real job because there's no time. I think we can basically accept that I'm a good person and most of you here are not in silent competition with me and not hung up about whether you are getting your share of acknowledgement. You speak from your heart and you make this place what it is. What would this place be like if you weren't here? Think about it.

To be perfectly honest I don't give a fig about people's vanity and ego- or my own either. God slaps me down all day long so I don't get much peace from that and I'm glad he does it. It's helping me grow and become a better person. One day I will be more exactly what many of you see in me. What you see is yourselves and that warms me in ways you don't probably know about. I have a genuine affection for all of you and I don't take too much interest in sibling rivalry but sometimes it's there. Denying it exists is foolish. It's patently obvious, especially in its attempts to be unobvious.

We should let this shit go. It will just drag us down as we are trudging and swimming across the varied landscapes of our experiences to our bright home where angels dwell. If you've got some high school problem with me just get over it. I'm not going to carry it with me and I will greet you like nothing ever happened and I will endeavor to do my best to serve you in any way I can. I am serving you. This all about you. That should make any ego happy that you mean so much to me that this is all I do. Don't say things you will regret later. Let's all study ourselves and see where it is that the lower nature is acting up.

Visible said...

I will do my best in this regard and as I said, I apologize if I've hurt anyone's feelings or lowered your regard for me (maybe not a bad thing actually). You can email me and you will find me open and working toward understanding. I bear no ill will about any of this. Don't tell me I don't know what's going on though.
It's always going on at some level. It's the human condition. Some things are about to happen for me over the course of coming months so some of what I am saying here is relevant to that. I didn't ask (I don't think) to be here. All of this happened on its own accord. There are some number of Bodhisattvas coming out of the wood work (Tolle might even be one of them) now here at the cusp of the ages. Our little group is an important component of what's happening. Surely you know that. Look at the collection of exceptional individuals who come here and you might be surprised at some of the people who come here. There are many in skilled professions and each of us touches our world so that all of us are touching a lot of people. We have the capacity to do a great deal of good; if we can properly identify what that is (grin). let's work together and put these trifling expressions of our animal nature aside. Let's teach our bears to dance. Everyone likes a dancing bear. I certainly do.

Finally, I'm just a functionary here, like I said, a doorman, a sort of catalyst for the traffic. We're one thing. It's not a distinct me and you. We're the same person. We just happen to have a different suit of clothes on.

I will close by saying that there's something off about this Tolle thing. I don't mean that negatively, probably I should have used a better choice of words but I'm trying to wind this up (like I wound you up? {grin}). There's something very suspicious going on and I hope to get to the bottom of it. It could well be benign. I just don't know but all will be revealed in its own time.

One final comment on one of my reasons for doing this. You see how quickly people’s suppressed feelings surface and how easy it is to damage friendships built over time. It can take a long time to build something that can be destroyed in moment. Everything is fleeting and subject to change. Life needs to be approached with care.

ThereisaGod said...

Like you, I feel that Tolle is full of it. He's like a dumbed down Krishnamurti. Krishnamurti was a product of the Annie Besant 'Lucis trust' machine if I'm not mistaken. These people seem to be about discarnating spirituality and suspending it at a point somewhere beyond the moon where it can not engage with this world and its corrupting powers in any way at all. Very useful for the parasites and string pullers.

This does not mean these people are not entirely genuine, of course.

They are just promoted by those who consider them useful.

Anonymous said...

Greetings Dumballah... It's as easy as the parable of the wheat and the tares. They are all shills, none have a cup full of stale piss to offer the universal good. You can't buy love, you can't sell it either. You are right on the money. Here's some advice to anyone for nothing... Disinformation is a dynamic form of poker-faced bullshit set to rhyme, that has an agenda: To affectatiously and aggressively lead people down the wrong path. It is as villainous as a sly knife stab and as effective at murdering a persons soulful energy. It does not just erk me that people buy this SHYTE! Remember 'The Emperor's New Clothes?" Anyone? And what about those morons with their red wrist bands - Kaballah sessions?? - FUCK ME! I am a Temple Knight (no thing at all to do with Masonry or Opus Dei)and if you have ever seen that BS Da Vinci Code crap, you probably have no idea what I and my colleagues represent. At the time the Templars were accused of being heretical, they were. They were definately 'thinking differently' to the patsy in the Yamulka -The Pope. They were fighting the Progroms of these villians and the like - Philip IV of France etc, whose hundred or so inquisitions were nothing more than organised crime devoted to land and property theft. Primarily from Gnostics/Cathars et al. As for worshipping Baphomet - the icons and idolatry associated with that energy are straight from the Babylonian Talmud and Kabbalah and Zorah. Most Knights could not read or write the Lingua Franca let alone aramaic or ancient hebrew hebrew/greek etc. The Kabbalah is a book of magik incantations that do not portent well for those with pronuncial shortcomings or the lingually challenged - in order that a "Spell'd (Spell; to recite accurately a word, in letters,anyone?) Work" manifest properly or a spirit manifest accurately, one has to "reci'te the WORD as it is Spell'd" of each incantation eloquently. Brave and brauny Templars were never accused of A. Being Academics or B. Being capable of indisidious multilingual slight-of-hand.
That they trained to retain their faith under duress is not disimiliar to retaining vital strategic and tactical info' under duress during 'escape and evasion training' and will-power techniques I learned as a Cavalry Reconaissance Trooper. Prior to combat. We were exposed to bastardisation which took the form of psychological and emotional torture, including degrading slurs about the chastity and sexual proclivity of ones mother, father and sister/s and brother/s. The Templars were devoted Warrior Monks and not Luciferian - their accusers however, were/are! In much the same way as Mary The Magdalene is slighted as a whore: So the history of the Templari is corrupted. My ancestor the Baron de Gris was incarcerated and tortured for a very long time before he was Murdered/Executed for Heresy. Ever wondered why these soothsaying frauds wear a yamulka; same reason a football fan wears a coloured scarf - to show to whom they are allied/beholden! If you rely on the MSM for your concept of Templarism, if you rely on anything other than personal exhaustive research about anything; shut the fuck up!

You shall know them by the fruit they bare! Oh, by the way, the first Ordo Templari were not Catholic! They were Gnostics who meditated to 'experience' the energy of the sacred spirit and wholly believed in reincarnation as the Prophet Jeshua taught. When Jeshua returns, and I for one have no idea how the energetic presence will manifest, then and only then will that presence be manifest as what we are told is 'The Christ'. How many of you know that the term 'Trinity' does not appear in the Bible? Huh, anyone?

I am a Templar not a God botherer, or Bible thumper, here's one of my favourite lines from a favourite song, "I talked to Jesus at the sewer, and the Pope said it was none of his god-damn business.."

As for the Holy-Rollers.."As ye sow, so shall ye reap!"

Begging your indulgence wise uncle.

E Nomini Espirito Sancti.

3echo.

Anonymous said...

Damn, 100+ comments on V.O. on and around Tolle!
I think your "experiment" worked.
Maybe you could've said Jesus never
existed & is phony and would have got less comments.
Think you were close when you mentioned Tolle on youtube looking like a mormon and elvis, etc. His
soporific droning quality -- manchurian? under mind control?
biosynthesizes his own quaaludes? -- I dunno, but know if I were around him on mdma, lsd or K I'd be outta there toute de suite.
Lot of other interesting stuff floated up in your experiment -- e.g., neg. comments over at Shangri La. I haven't been there in a sev. months, I got to thinking, "What if all these people did live together in some sort of community?" Thought, well, it would end just like the communities I did live in -- just say, " they ended." Obviously we're all damaged growing up in "this" - just going to take a long time to climb out of it. Meanwhile, I paddle my own canoe...
Word verification: etran nu
(etrange?)

Anonymous said...

Have some cajones...don't look to others to show you 'The Way'.
Don't seek some self proclaimed wise-one to lead you up the garden path.Use some Rigorous intuition,
look inside and examine your own shortcomings and failings...we don't need some 'other' to point them out to us.
We are all quite capable of being better humans ...simple really, just show some more love everyday.
Appreciate the beauty of nature around you and switch of that damn Idiot Box...lol!
Peace all.(--_--)
R4E.
P.s. Les this is 'The only' blogg that I check for updates each and everyday...and no i'm not kissing your ass..hahaha.

Anonymous said...

"Good or bad Tolle's 'job' is to put people to sleep."

-Quite the opposite is the truth.

Greetings from Berlin
H.

Anonymous said...

Dearest Les --

I always thought sitting around waiting to catch the next thought was called "writer's block"

Prinzowhales said...

The medium is becoming the message.
Someone once sang about 'truth being written on a subway wall.'
Tolle has read some of the most spiritually powerful works that humankind has yet to produce, is it really any surprise that this should bleed through whatever personnae the man might project?

Jesus gave a sermon on the Mount... Tolle is mass marketed. His listeners are too busy to pay much attention to much of anything beyond an audiobook or a recommendation from Oprah. That they are looking for something is a good step...but if they think they found it in Tolle...I fear that they have missed the message which is the whole point...as most of them have done throughout time...which explains religions.

tim said...

Les;
Maybe this is all about the Avatar you are expecting. I'm saying this with respect and love, so bear with me a little. Maybe the Avatar you are expecting has come and gone in the person of Adi Da or Sri Ramana Maharshi. I think you nailed it on the head when you said the Avatar will maifest in all our hearts rather than another human form. Maybe what you wanted to teach us became a purification of some of your egoity. You should be carefull around spiritual Adepts of the highest degree. You don't remember that I told you about Adi Da a few hours before Brian posted. Remember I said in the e-mail that he was a western-born Adept in the lineage of Swami Muktananda and Nityananda? Pretty johnny-on-the-spot for my very first e-mail to you, don't ya think? I've never heard of Trolle before yesterday. I went to one of the links and the first words I read were "Advaita Vedanta" and "Sri Ramana Maharshi". Anyone involved with that can't be all bad. Maybe it's Advaita Vendanta lite for the feeble western mind. :) He's not going to kill anyone. Maybe it's the PTB trying to subvert authentic esoteric Hinduism. Good luck with that..awfully brave.

dave said...

god must love the stupid- he makes so many of them.

Freddamedgjedda said...

To me the post did not read as an attack on Tolle, as many of you obviously felt. The question I personally think Les wanted attention to was: Is there any enlightenment to be found in the so called "false prophets"? Can we spot them, and how.

Many comments defend Tolle, some atack him, some even attack Les. Is this not what TPTB would like? Is this not the problem with having "idols"? It leads to meaningless discussions over who is real and who is not. I think its obvious by reading this, at least to me.

Maybe we/you should quit taking stands and sides. Personally I live by the motto: "Take what you can learn from it, and leave the rest". I have read Tolle and did just that. One of the things in Tolles words(probably/definitely not originally his) that hit me was the exercise of trying to listen for the underlying silence of all the noise. This to me leads to a calm feeling(maybe I do meditate, maybe not), and peace of mind... I am sad to see that "fight of the older brothers" since I love you both and you have been irreplaceable teachers for me. But then again we can all learn from it...

Anonymous said...

Inn regards to Shangri La, it is not important that it will end. it is important what happens while it is alive. AS with each one of us, it is not a big deal that we will die one day, as we will. It is important what we do when we are alive.

Amicus

Anonymous said...

Doggonnit, I was hoping for an (dis)honorable mention..

Anonymous

(whoops! never mind)

Ben There said...

Les –

You have to know that you are one of my favorite people. I know you know this. But I disagree with a lot of what you are saying here. For one thing I just don’t see a violent response from anyone here in regards to defending Tolle. There may be one exception with an anonymous comment but nothing here looks like blind loyalty. There are a few of us who disagree with your assessment but “intense loyalty”?? Which particular comment would you be referring to when using the term “intense loyalty”? I’m not trying to be a smartass. I’m genuinely interested in knowing what gave you that impression.

What I see here is a lot of knee-jerk reaction on the part of people who go into convulsions at the mention of the word “Oprah”; a lot of automatic dismissal of something almost purely because it’s gained some popularity. You discount entirely the possibility that this is a hurting world, during a hurting time, and that suffering is causing a spiritual hunger in large numbers of people and here and there a teacher appears who can relate to the layperson and put timeless truths into ordinary and practical language. (Not like us spiritual freaks who have been known to spend hours on end meditating and contemplating.)

Then there are the complaints about his delivery. As far as I’m concerned that’s a completely subjective issue – different dispositions resonates with different styles of delivery. You don’t like his delivery, fine. I don’t really like Eddie Van Halen’s guitar playing but I can appreciate his talent. Just not my style. Give me Stevie Ray Vaughan any day.

You talk about how you can’t find anything on Tolle’s “organization”. There’s a reason for that. Because there is no organization!

I absolutely want to re-iterate that I could be way off base here. I’m open to that possibility. Prove me wrong. Find some dirt on Tolle. Find the angle. If anyone can do it, you would be the guy. But all this conjecture, talk about delivery, etc…this isn’t compelling. You could literally say the same things about any spiritual teacher and find someone who would agree. I have no problem with the fact that you don’t like Tolle for whatever reason. But some of the claims, the hinting at something sinister, are just baseless (at least at this point).

Hoping you won’t interpret this to be a violent or caustic response on my part. Honestly I think you like the pushback, otherwise you wouldn’t have done this.

(This comment thread is really something else. Wow!)

Again, I have to mention that I have personally seen Tolle’s message have a transformative effect on a few people in my life; literally changes that I could visibly see on the person’s being, tears shed, old wounds healed, personal demons conquered, a measure of peace attained. If that sounds like an exaggeration I’m sorry. But I’ve seen it first hand. I think the guy is waking people up.

Jj - If you happen to see this, would you mind sending me an email at bjd2222@hotmail.com?

Anonymous said...

Dublin Mick here. If it has the London stamp on it, you don't want it!

Tolle......College of London....Cambridge....appeared on Oprah? Sounds somewhat Tavistockish to me.

What does Tolle recommend concerning one million times more squalene in the upcoming mandatory vaccines, be here now?

I am serious what is his take on this simply eat some GM popcorn while they shoot you up?

Some of us have simply learned to drive around the pot holes and keep moving without slowing down.

Anonymous said...

Les

I feel ya here. Money and ideas mix. Ideas and ideas mix. The link you make.
Stillness is a cruel joke created to keep people in wanting like heaven or hell. I try to become still, and find that I do hear a speach coming to me, we all understand whats happening here? Problem, we cant ever be still nor should we. If I find a task you cant do and suggested its the answer your looking for, then you will return to me and give me money. The new age movenment is a sidetrack because it takes cash to be part of. Next it can turn the waking mind into circles of silliness. This must be and we have to work around the loop of others paths but I feel some of this is planned. Much like the 60's hippie. Plug in and turn off. Not good. People want ideas and feelings boxed up for them. I say we should do the ground work for ourself.
Im not well versed in Tolle so I should keep this open, but asking people to look at the now is key. Asking people to act isnt. Thats the rub.
We only get to act with two hands. I sure can learn by others hands yes, but I didnt move them to that, nor have to carry their weight. Its seems clear to me that Im doing ok when other do the same, but thats just the "eyes" feeling better for self created acts? Why pay for this?
LeMat

tom said...

"The ’sign’ of a clean ‘messenger’ is that he or she is not allowing masses of seekers to accumulate into clusters of non-recognition. Seekers are bound by belief. (There is actually no one bound by anything) Wherever you see hundreds of devotees gathering around a guru, it almost always means that the guru is not clear and precise with delivering the message.
There is one particular one who is very popular at the moment. What he says is fairly clear - but the seekers are swooning in devotion to an idol.
Delusional states of mind in clusters ‘create’ more bondage.
Set them free. Why not? If the KNOWING is clean and delivered precisely, the seekers will run for cover. Then the ones who are able to drop the devotional bullshit will come out and hear the message, without all the fuss and bother.
There is nothing to ‘gain’ in the clear message for the seeker AT ALL. When weeks turn into months and months turn into years and years turn into decades, gurus become famous and celebrities. No one is released from seeking. Levels of attainment are manufactured and certificates of attainment are handed out. Replicas of the guru are produced and the seekers gather in larger numbers. Isn’t it obvious that there is something wrong in the whole ‘deal’?
The introduction to your true nature can be ‘done’ within the ’space of an hour’ - or even much less. Collecting seekers is a business deal made by a parasite. I could mention some exceedingly obvious cases but it will only spark a fury of bitterness from those who are still bound into seeking and identification with a particular guru.
I have ‘personally’ known, over the years, many many seekers and followers of various gurus. Some were ‘crippled’ by various revelations about their guru, when the inappropriate activities of the guru were leaked into the public arena. One thing that is common to all - the seeking keeps on going - the ideal that that try to live up to is a concept in their own minds and they DON’T see it is only a conceptual construct of their own filled with belief. The ‘deep’ desire to merge with their own true nature is ONLY obscured by their own erroneous beliefs. How absurd.
But if you try to take those beliefs away from them, they will get very upset and threatening. So, intelligence says, let them have their beliefs. Who cares?
On the fringes of these clusters a few are open to ‘hearing’ something that resonates in their being. All this ‘appearance’ of the UGC and what it is about is for that ‘one’ on the fringe of erroneous beliefs. Is that YOU?"

gilbert schultz at the urban guru cafe. podcasts of awake people who don't charge money.

http://urbangurucafe.com/wordpress/index.php

Visible said...

I'll try to give the short version since the long version doesn't seem to work across the board and people are even coming up with words out of the long version that weren't there when I wrote it- or I don't remember them. Maybe those words are in there now. Tolle might have done it so I would catch the heat.

I don't kmow if he's the bell tolles or the tolle under the brige where we get passage through to the underworld for a hot date with Persephone but... I'll say it more directly. I don't care one way or the other about Tolle. I just wanted to see what happened if I did what I did. That is the whole point and if that hadn't been my concern there would have been no motivation for me to even write the thing.

Tolles been vibrating through my ear-pod for a while and I been wondering about that and wondering why people would keep recommending someone to me who has a less than zero impact on me and actually turns me off more than on.

I would hope that people realize that I have no idea whether Tolle is the forerunner of a new wave of new age mass market transliterations of ancient traditions into Twitterware. that's been going on for awhile but I'm wondering about heightening impact.

I don't know if he works for the aliens or plays Clark Kent in the movie. What I do know is that something seems to be going on with him and I don't know what it is and I'm curious about it. I haven't stated it either way... I'm just curious and I wanted to see what the inquiring minds here had to make of it. What I've gotten is that something seems to be going on with him (grin) and that there are two distinct camps but mostly 'con'. Best case scenario it has a positive effect on the money in my sports betting metaphysics pool.

There's no steel cage match with me and Michael. Certain observations go back and forth but people will make up their own minds about that. I did choose to send my response by email because public forum events tend to have an agenda gear usually and so on and so forth.

It's probably limiting of me but I am of the opinion that nothing good can come through Oprah. There's also something going on with her. I can't account at all for her popularity I don't see anything dynamic about what she does. Arguably, I haven't seen much of her by choice because that kind of thing makes me squirm like when Barbara Walters does that emotional pressure thing in order to make her guests cry. There's occult forces at work there and they are traditionally of the wrong sort when they come through or have anything to do with mass media which is a many headed bitch hydra.

I can't get any passion going for this except for faking it in the article so I can't clearly interpret the meaning of some of the responses which may or may not have a level of intensity to them. they do possess some element of the disagreeable, what with people going around with barbecue forks and all.

I think to myself, "Maybe I should look a little deeper into Tolle but I can't take very much of him because I don't like the effect. Opera and rap also send me running for the exits except for an aria here and there and Eminem.

But we might as well be arguing over apple strudel as opposed to sacher torte. I'm just not a fan of intense chocolate baked goods but it doesn't mean I've got something against the people who eat them and that's what this is about.

Well, before the short version becomes another long version let me just say that this probably won't make any difference either. It's spooky to me that people don't see right off the oddness of the delivery and the sequencing and segues... that's the part that gets me much more so that the content.

Anonymous said...

Tolle is just another guy with a message.His teaching is definitely founded in the ancient wisdom ie the Upanishads etc etc.he has repackaged it and has made a lot of money out of it.That is dangerous.He HAS HOWEVER BROUGHT OBSCURE WISDOM to a wider audience.
It´s not really that important anyway.If he is a fraud then time will reveal that.
I don´t think he can be a bad fellow if he is not asking for your cash or wanting to fuck you.

Zoner said...

It would be unfair to comment on Tolle since I have yet to read the book or listen to the CD (you are welcome to borrow them if further exploration is desired, V), so "I don't know" applies here. Which leads to this;

"if you rely on anything other than personal exhaustive research about anything; shut the fuck up!"

(well stated, 3echo!)

Or simply,

"Trust, but verify"

There are seemingly always many pointing "The Way", and some probably even have something figured out for themselves, but there is that fine line between attraction and promotion to ponder, and cash distorts the whole effort somehow, does it not? Missing is the opportunity to measure things face to face with certain internal "sizing up" tools we all possess, so we try to get the credentials via a Youtube post or words gathered on paper and distributed widely. That's a tough one, and extra care is needed but these are only guideposts anyways, not the actual thing worthy of true adoration and tireless service.

Man, I'm glad you didn't go after "The Secret" or "What the Bleep" to test the reactionary minds at play - that could have been REAL ugly.


Z

Anonymous said...

Les

A real debate here!!! An underview of sorts:
If we see it or hear it on mass forms of media its for reasons not listed to begin with? One story or writer isnt all alone? They have to get support and what not. The major outlets for this are controled by the elite and we know to well their tools of the trade.
Many well and health spirits walk within this game, but the headlines they dont create, the man does.
Read more, question everyting and ask without words!!!
LeMat

Anonymous said...

Just love it when the loud mouth bar guy who goes out back to pee in the pool shows up!

There is something spooky.

Psychegram nailed some shit there, bro!

Good on all of ya. Good job, Les!

respects,
bholanath

Anonymous said...

don't like Dalai Lama either, all he does is mumble his answers and laughs.
tried to read E.T., couldn't connect.
I seek wisdom on the train, bus, in the car...whenever there's a long ride.

Anonymous said...

Once again,excellent stuff Les! I've read The Power of Now, A New Earth, Stillness Speaks, as well as having listened to numerous audio collections of Tolle.I consider myself an expert!! I feel like smoking a big joint right now and opening the floodgates of thought...but I will refrain....for NOW! :)
Tolle admits that his "teachings" are nothing new...his bank balance certainly IS though. Yeah, there is some practical wisdom within his work. I was barred from a Tolle forum when I began to ask very incisive questions. Go figure, an internet chatter-box forum paying homage to someone who REPEATEDLY advocates silence to calm the "tape-loop" mind, and repetitive, destructive thought forms.
I often wonder if Satan himself is manifesting his will through the collective unconscious and compelling people to just "be with it..." DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT!! WE ARE ONE, AND WE ARE LEGION!!! if you catch my "drift".

It's AMAZING how the THE LAW OF ATTRACTION favors Goldman-Sachs et al,isn't it? They not only loot the USA, but they also attract immunity from persecution. Amazing how the Ukranians "attracted" mass starvation despite their emaciated bodies literally CRYING out for sustenance. AMAZING how the communists attracted and implemented this mindless orgy of death. Perhaps the Law of Attraction is free of scruples or morality...just like the communists who continue to align the mass-mind to look "HERE AND NOW" while they continue implementing their devious machinations. From Tolle to Winfrey, from Cohen to Jerry and Esther Hicks...NONE speak out what is happening NOW. They seek to reassure their audience the obeisance to mammon is your destiny!!
LUXURY CRUISE AWAITS!! LEARN TO HARNESS THE LAW OF ATTRACTION AND MANIFEST THE LIFE OF YOUR DREAMS!!!
FULFILLING RELATIONSHIPS AND MORE MONEY THAN THE DREAMS OF YOUR AVARICE AWAIT YOU!!!!
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Visible said...

It's a ticklish thing. I certainly don't like upsetting Ben There who was one of the first people to follow this blog and this blog was the early one by at least a couple of years predating Smoking Mirrors.

Words are such a difficult medium. Sometimes you are not saying what you seem to be saying or you are making an observation which isn't really a judgment but then you use disparaging terms which are the only way to communicate how something makes you feel.

I always hold out the possibility that I am wrong because I have had that proven to me more than once.

I went searching on the net today and hit some forums where they were talking about Tolle and one guy was on about how he couldn't afford the base ticket of two hundred dollars. Another person was complaining about the hundred dollars it was going to cost him and someone was talking about how the seats got more expensive the closer you got to Tolle.

Several people held forth that putting on shows is expensive and that justified the expense. BUT... we are talking about one person talking, not a rock band. We're talking about a microphone a stand and a chair and perhaps elementary set up of the hall and cleaning up afterwards. So, that doesn't wash.

When I do this sort of thing and I understand that I will in fact be doing it in a little while my policy would be- as it would be whatever my operation- to take fifty percent off the top to donate to something that relates to the point of why one is speaking in the first place. then out of that fifty percent I would take 20 percent for myself and the other 30 would go to friends and family and my personal pet causes which may benefit from the other fifty as well.

I expect to be held to this and to accompany paying gigs with free gigs. I've sat up at night on occasion and thought about how to manage this sort of thing because that is better to have worked out ahead of time... trust me on that.

Because of this and because I feel that all of them should be doing this especially in 'these times' I cannot help being a little putout by the huge fortunes being amassed by people who are supposed to be helping people.

It's also why I'm a fan of the ancient Hindu and Chinese traditions and why I place myself under those umbrellas. There was a little wiggle here about that Hindu thing... I've got next to nothing going on with any Hindu environment it just so happens that the teachers I admire and respect come out of them. Buddha did too. That's the only connection to the culture. You don't see me with a red dot on my forehead to indicate that coffee's ready.

I don't want to come off all self righteous here. I fuck up on a daily basis. Others might not notice but I do and why is it that I do? Because I've got something that sits on my shoulder and points it out to me without fail.

There is a reason that this Dali Lama is the last Dali Lama and that has to do with the times we are in, Especially in these times we have to 'trust but verify'. I'm telling you that 'they' are coming after you and it's not about politics or any other temporal thing. it's about souls. It's about a soul harvest so there is some real pressure on. You can think of it as a competition between the representatives of two different agencies or perspectives. In fact, it is.

This is why false prophets come at these intervals and why they can deceive the very elect. This all ties in to the materialism angle and why those helping, or wanting to help who have the requisite skills must be rigorously honest about their personal inventory... the lure of success and fortune is powerful; don't kid yourself. There are many clever justifications for why people do things.

It might be okay to be very rich and also find that you are extremely useful but for me that route is not workable. I wouldn't feel comfortable about it. I feel like you have to be stripped down to be truly effective and that's one of the reasons I have stayed slender as well (grin).

Visible said...

On another note, would any readers who are in Europe and who use substances for opening the doors of perception ( especially in England) please email me. I've got a question I want to ask.

Anonymous said...

Comment 123:
In all things we learn.
Mouser

Ben There said...

Don't worry Les, this isn't upsetting me other than the fact that I hate to feel like I'm arguing with you. I'm just tossing in my two cents here. We both acknowledge that we could be wrong. In fact, if indeed it is the case, I would love to be proven wrong. I'm always open to correction and you'd have my gratitude for it.

So far we have a few main "cons": the gold vest, Oprah, style of delivery, and a high priced ticket for a Tolle seminar (or whatever you'd call it).

Of those I'll agree that the last one has some merit. It would however be worth noting that this guy started by answering questions on a park bench and then small groups eventually gathered, and as far as I know he wasn't charging a dime. He had either the fortune or misfortune of getting the attention of Oprah and with that, instant celebrity. With the celebrity came things like ticket sales and the issue of money. No doubt he's pocketed a small fortune. But if you understand how he got started it's hard to think that he set out to become a wealthy spiritual teacher.

He's made some money but I'd still argue that he's made a positive impact and helped alot of people. The celebrity factor has allowed the message to get through to a much larger audience never exposed to this kind of thing.

Carry on...

Anonymous said...

Les

Question If you trust then why verify? Well because, we find things arent as they seem. That shouldnt change your trust but change the tools you use to judge(bad word) or balance with?
The idea posted here about "legion." Great stuff, but should that change oneness? Yes and no. Very much so we think and feel with mind, heart, and body. Do we change this? All this time we are talking about only on face or outlet of ourself, the talking and thinking self. There is still more to share? I cant use words for they will misguide you. Deep and dark are we. Only the egde or outer parts come into play today. Time is giving us a window into the soul, thank god. Why most will run from this is key to watch but not judge (that dann word again.)
Les we were given the idea of money its not self created so as you plan what to do with it, you are being pushed along by forces you really dont want around? Its like the box that cant be closed again. Its out there, but that doesn mean anything till you think it and give life to it.
The battle is "unseen" as is the soul. Please you may think you soul is up for grabs but its not!!! Many can be tricked into thinking other forces can effect the soul (magic) but that only works if you think it first. Thats why the masters must say in words that they will kill you before they really do, for them to gain any power off the event? This too is a story line both sides agree too?
Your soul is a gift that only you and god can trade my friend.
LeMat

Zoner said...

Can't we just be our own prophets? It would be cheaper that way, depending on how you assign value to things and how much we need for proper wardrobe.

Don't we have a direct, real pathway to this ancient wisdom that folks "discover" now and then (and market with their own particular fashion sense and delivery method injected). I mean, anytime, anywhere, no ticket required? Maybe that is the direction Tolle and all these other Prophet messenger types point, and you just have to get past the production to get the nuggets. I just don't know because I can't get through ANY of it. I need the experience of the thing, not the tale of another's journey to wherever they think they have arrived that compels them to shout "Eureka" and seek a book deal. Congrats and all, but.....

Yeah, there is a bit of maintenance involved in the direct route, and it can even get messy sometimes, but you'll never have to worry about the sincerity of any of it if it is kept strictly between you and......

The best I can ever hope for from any 2-legged creature is that they are a good signpost or friendly guide along the way. None are the path itself, even if appearances try to convince otherwise. It appears some go to great lengths to adopt a certain posture to gain undue influence for personal gain, and that says as much about the people that follow along as those doing the posturing and gaining I'm afraid.

123 comments and counting. Nicely done!

Z

Visible said...

As I said, the lure of these things can be very great. I was warned internally about this very thing a couple of months ago. It went on all through the night. That is how serious the talk was and how important it was that I listened because such things can complicate the mission greatly and the possibility that intelligent souls should have their guide or one of their teachers surrender to this sort of thing can kill a person's faith and make them think, "It's all bullshit. They're all the same. I thought he was different. I really did. Now what am I going to do. I don't believe in anything now." Words that hit like a hammer and with a more telling and lasting pain upon the heart of the one who succumbs and surely must hear them. I am certain we are shown at what cost our compromises came.

I really can't get a fix on Tolle but now that I am prying about I will eventually have some sort of a bio. It may take awhile but it will come. I do not in any case think him a bad man. My immediate concern would be about the sense of wavering and uncertainty I get from him but that's early perception and subject to change and new understandings.

Truth be told, I am really talking to myself. I am apprehensive of my own potential for wavering and it makes me ruthless with myself and so it is a blessing as I come to understand that it's not in my hands. I am not expected to carry this burden. I am only expected to put one foot in front of the other and not depart from the path.

There is not a single physical pleasure that cannot be granted by God in his own time and place- or it's spiritual counterpart which exceeds the physical enjoyment to the near ruination of any thrill remaining in the aftermath. I've had a taste of this and it haunts my every day.

People don't realize how God rewards those who truly love him. The sky is not the limit for there are no limits. Of course we must be proven and we survive on scraps along the way as a lure to the divine but there comes a time when it comes upon us in it's fullness and utterly transforms us.

I occasionally get this drunkenness that I believe is connected to what is called the wine of God and is the original meaning of that essence of Bacchus and other ancient tales and the sensation and experience of it is beyond words to tell. It is so magnificent and wild that I could imagine being in that state forever. It comes for a few minutes or half and hour or an hour at rare intervals and there is nothing in my life to compare it with and this is only one of the states available to those who are proven and have passed the door.

I stated in earlier Origami postings that all anyone has to do if they are serious about finding God is to go into a room for three days with water only and to pray without ceasing until weariness takes them and they sleep and then to wake to it immediately. Something will definitely happen, though sometimes is comes of it's own accord later. And if you are serious then do it for a week. Do it for a week and there is just no telling. I've some experience at this because that was/is how important it is to me so I am speaking from experience. It so happens that life put me in these places on occasion such as solitary confinement in prison.

Keith V Morton said...

There are no False teachers or unFalse teachers because we can only teach ourselves. Clearly the so called false teachers have taught humanity lessons just as valuable as the greatest avatars have. Tolle is a free spirit expressing his subjective truths to anyone who chooses to make it a truth of their own. And I know from my own personal experience that if applied properly one can vibrate higher. Some people resonate with the Vedas, others with the dharma and others choose Islam, isn’t that the beauty of the spiritual human experience?

Visible said...

Indeed it is. To paraphrase, variety is the spice of divinity.

psychegram said...

$200 ... that's a lot of money to sit and listen to someone talk. Sure, you could make the supply and demand argument but really ... there's no reason Tolle couldn't sell the seats for $10 a pop and have them go on a first come, first served basis. Set up a camera and webcast the event for free for any who didn't get their ticket in time. Seems that would be the way to go....

Now take another case: David Icke. Icke has had very little in the way of positive media attention, yet commands a global audience. He charges for his talks ($50-$75, depending on the seat I presume), but these are multimedia presentations involving quite a few assistants, all of whom have to eat. Plus there's the rental fee for the venue (which to be fair, Tolle has to worry about, too.) But what, to me, really sets the two apart (apart from the message: Icke tells you the whole thing, straight up, from every angle) is the energy. Where Tolle and his ilk have a sort of hypnotic, soporific quality about him, Icke communicates an infectious enthusiasm for the truth, for life, for rising to the moment and living to one's full potential as a free human being ... or rather, in his words, "A spiritual being on a human journey." Apparently during his Awakening, back in '91 or thenabouts, he was told that it wasn't even really important what he said, that the only reason for him to say anything was so the audience wouldn't be like, "What the hell is that weird bastard just standing on stage staring at us for?" No, the importance is all in the energy, in the light that pours out of him and activates that same lamp in every receptive heart in the audience.

Then again I've been known to get things badly wrong before. My intuition tells me Icke is the real deal, the polar opposite of Tolle but ... how do the rest of you feel about him?

In case you have no familiarity with him whatsoever, here's part 1 of his recent 'Beyond the Cutting Edge' talk.

Anonymous said...

We are the peace maker all of us together and if we dont unify all of us no matter who from what ever creed race religion culture,hell will take over just like it has been for thousands of years,man must be woken,so buckle up your truth forget vanities self pride,the peace maker is coming and it is all of us together we are the medicine...peace neil

kikz said...

to anon@ 9:19

'Perhaps the Law of Attraction is free of scruples or morality...'


'intent of use' is at the discretion of freewill, however ultimately - its consequences/effects are not.


open both eyes.

Anonymous said...

Your point is well taken Psychegram.

Icke's audience is new-agey, but more independent and free spirited. Icke is not afraid to pull away the curtain and reveal the PTB and the sinister threat their agenda represents to humanity. Icke can be a bit wacky too, but his over-all effect seems to be that of enlivening and empowering people, rather than hypnotizing them into a false sense of enlightenment... if you get what I mean.

Tolle's message on the other hand, although it has some value, it tends to distract and disarm people and lull them into a false sense of wisdom and spiritual awakening... and his audience are far more composed of feel-goody type sheeple, many of whom are extreme neophytes and only recently tuned-in via Oprah, and so they tend to have a far more pseudo-hip & fadish & hype mentality. Its pretty obvious that many of them end up thinking that they are now quite spiritually awakened, when in reality they have only traded one illusion for another more enchanting one.

I could say a whole lot more, because I have a very comprehensive view of this entire thing and beyond, but I just don't have the time right now. But perhaps in a few days.

For now, just try to be loving towards one another. Les has a sense of what is being done through him and why. Let uus all be vessels of the one. And btw, we are all in this together, whether we like it or not.

Before I go, I'd also like to share a humble word of caution to those who wish and feel compelled to go about proclaiming that some earthly guru or other as being the avatar or the answer: You only believe that because you have yet to attain a greater wisdom. Don't be so sure. Truth is a jealous god, and so surrender. Surrender is the key. Surrender all your ideas and beliefs and whatever you think you know or have attained, or that you think some human guru possesses.

Those who think they know or who think have found the truth, or that some other guy has it... well they don't, and they haven't.

Just be patient and don't jump to conclusions... all will see and undertand sooner or later. Look within.

Love, Long John

Anonymous said...

psychegram

David Icke is a neat thing for sure. I see him being very off on things and history but without his work I wouldnt have found links to other ideas? I think he just went to fast and tried for the holy gail of sorts. Try reading Michael Tsarion?
He feels that its his job to share this info and with real love does he do this. The money and what not is a system onto its self?
Bottom line, if he wasnt moving with love and light, I wouldnt have grown from his sharing, even if its not the way I see thing? Its all in the reason for action and thought and less about the things we play with in the mind? You can always turn it off and what are you left with? Alex Jones is a great story too. Using fear is fear and that what I see him doing. He goes to fast too. Now deep down he is light and love but to play with the big guys he sinks into their hate and powers? He seems to think others need him, and thus he creates an unhealthy learning environment? I wouldnt want him to stop but to much fear and worry is he? The joke face thing is a clear sign if you ask me?
LeMat

Anonymous said...

I think I agree with everyone here.

Carry on chaps but always remember

Cross at the green and not in between

Fantastical work all around...

John said...

Psychegram: Wow. I like David Icke too, a lot. Reptilian shape-shifting Queen Elizabeths have a little baggage though. I only mention that because it's the main issue of contention whenever he is mentioned. I don't really care about that or what other people think about it. He has a powerful message, and I get the vibe that he is completely sincere. Michael Tsarion is interesting as well.

Anonymous said...

aDeception Airborne flying into yonder eyes
playing hob'd abogado with bits of twist tried
count alfred and sarlo outside, homburgs with fries
kneeslapping milo too hard so he flies...

odd belief-ablity some sell that is not even owned
to ones who come looking at clean dusted bones
geometric'ly spread now a virus through phones
that maybe a little there sounds like pheromones...

it seems we'll wind up in similar straits, in valles, on peaks
scattering winds as sheaths open in wee timid streaks
a tad scraping off wiped into air fitfully filled as light leaks
into there. i think titles give oomph and so "Silliness Shrieks"...

there's only a few words paltry and lame
a dogfight, response or reply no need to acclaim
accompany your voice, mine - i listen all day
let's hear what your nimble'd fingers can play...

miphi

Anonymous said...

funny how people are unable to differentiate between what is true and alive,and what is only a copy.

Anonymous said...

This has really gotten comical in so many ways.

Tracks being covered by dragging a branch of thorns behind....Backhanded compliments and turning the other cheek after the bitch slapping and then claiming self-defense

OK, so if Tolle (or anyone for that matter) looked like a movie star, had the voice of James Earl Jones, paid people to attend their seminars, shaved his head and didn't appear on Oprah people would drink the kool aid?

Experiment my ass--

None of this has anything to do with Tolle

Visible said:
"Well gee. its not our fault you're so far ahead of us. We'll catch up eventually. Isn't there some adult food you should be eating up there in the treetops?

Meanwhile, would someone crack me a jar of that Gerber's banana? I love that stuff".

What was it that Cindi Lauper sang...
"I see your true colors shining through"


Jj

estebanfolsom said...

the void is not empty
it's filled with light
of this i am sure of
with all of my might
the world is troubled
as i rest tonight
half in darkness
something’s not right
the day will break
the sun will rise
and i'll see things
through different eyes
i hope that my visions
not clouded by doubt
peace among all of us
is the only way out

gurnygob said...

Well I have just come to the end of the comments page. I think I read every one so i feel i have earned the right to say something. Its not often that i give out words of wisdom
so listen up. Your all full of shit.

There is a whole lot more I could say but you will have to do with that for now.

Anonymous said...

Dublin Mick here

I enjoy reading Icke but on the other hand I often wonder. In merry old England the truth teller usually ends up like Robin Hood or Randall Wallace.

As Visible mentioned in a different post truth doesn't speak to packed houses.

Anonymous said...

Dublin Mick here

I knew a wise man once who told me that even the most crude illiterate bore would always have something to teach you! You can learn from everyone.

Visible said...

Hi Jj;

Well, it should be in context what ever the case may be.

You said this

"does anyone look back at some of what they read years ago and find it...well, basic?

from the sounds of things in here, it may be well to remember your roots and what at the time looked so over your head, yet now, looks like kindergarten.

it all comes in the form we can understand at the time--baby food--then our appetites and tastes increase as we experience, and can be trusted, with more.

from all of the book titles thrown around in here at times (keeping up with the jones's?) I would have thought some of you would have reached enlightenment years ago if not god-like status--

but most still seem to be chasing their tales and like the smell of their own ass.

Jj"

Which would make the color 'brown' in most cases, so I opted for 'yellow' which could double for baby shit as well... now that I think of it.

You're seeming a little testy here. I thought my comment was appropriate and toned down, given what was put out about the smell of asses and other things.

The train is just going to keep on down the track regardless so I don't guess the shuck and jive and bump and weave it going to amount to anything more than a little dancing around the ring. They'll be setting up for the concert afterwards; different crowd coming in and I doubt anyone will remember the sparing that took place earlier. In fact, it would appear that almost everyone had already forgotten about it.

I must say that that is the first time I heard that our appetites increase as we experience and can be trusted more. I never thought appetite was some some kind of pay raise.

Duke said...

Greetings,
The comments are sure coming in on this one, Les. Tolle is another consciousness guru with a quick fix. He is onto something, however having discovered the real world the hard way(his conversion was traumatic), he is now advocating an easy way(just say "now") out of the delusion dilemma we all have to suffer under before we come to our senses. I wrote a short message on our web'site entitled "Consciousness Gurus"- Another quick fix, for those who have the courage to face reality and take up their cross.

Anonymous said...

gurnygob, why thanks for telling us how full of shit you are. and btw, it smells like there's still a whole lot more shit remaining after you smeared that 'gob' of shit on your face. maybe you should go crawl back into that toilet you came out of before you make another mess on yourself.

Visible said...

Well, we have had mixed results but all in all, not a bad venue. The truth is that we could have picked almost any name off the rack and gotten something similar, unless it was Dick Cheney or someone like that.

I've noted a lot of positive comments about Icke and that comes as a bit of a surprise because he's a polarizer too and the other pole just isn't represented here.

I myself don't know what to think about Icke. He's certainly a phenomenal researcher and a very good writer. I've read most of his books and have found them terrifically interesting. If I had any criticism it's that you have to scroll through over half the page on every page before you get past the adverts. I notice that most places though. Rense is chock full of adverts but it's his hair that really gives me pause (grin).

Alex Jones always sounds like he carries a bullhorn with him most of the time. Each of these larger than life characters has a distinctive personality which may have a lot to do with the high profile apart from the actual material they deal with.

What it proves to me is how we seem to be naturally part of groups that gravitate in one direction or another headed wherever we are headed.

Speaking of which, it's time for me to head over to Smoking Mirrors. I've no idea what I'm going to say but something will come up after I put on my hip waders and take a stroll through the MSM and also see what Michael has got up at WRH. Issues just seem to materialize in the air after that.

We don't seem to be much further up or down the road in respect of Tolle than we were in the beginning but I suspect we're all going to be more watchful now which is the point anyway.

With the coming of the fall there are all sorts of things that are now going to come front and center. The Iran situation is going to go one way or the other and depending on that they whole world is going to shift.

The commercial real estate bubble is going to explode. The Swine Flu inoculation dilemma is on the way. California was burning and then it dropped off the page. Suffice to say that there is the impression that things are going to get darker and more chaotic now. I'm always hoping for the bright side but there haven't been any changes in personnel at the top of the landfill so...

we'll see.

I'm hoping all the ruffled feathers manage to be smoothed out under the kind hand of passing time but things will continue regardless of that.

I'd like to ask anyone who's interested to drop me a line and let me know exactly where at the New Shangri La things are getting tense and unruly. I keep hearing about it but I don't know where to look since it's gotten so large.

Alright then, see you all in the next reel.

Anonymous said...

This guy was an influence on Tolle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBMl0HKM7X0&feature=related

Visible said...

He says, " Everyone's mixed up until they come to me and I set them right." I turned it off at that point but I've got to say that listening to him he's saying a lot of confusing things. He says the self is bad but me is good and he says people have to get their terms right but he uses his terms, which are in direct conflict with the commonly understood terms and implies only his are right. I don't know. There isn't any light there that I can see.

Honestly, I don't get most of these people. I wouldn't listen to them but lots of people do. It's a mystery.

Anonymous said...

Hi Les, Feel free to post any of my responses to the Tolle debate as "anonymous" if you so desire.
It's the first discussion I've been following closely in the year or more I've been reading your blog.

Who are all these people that "want to be their own teachers, their own gurus" who believe they have the repositories of all wisdom within themselves ? (I think they are confusing the Spark of truth with Information)
Are they, perhaps, the reincarnates of those who burnt the library at Alexandria ? *-)
Do they mean I should cease reading, discussing, investigating?

Such soft headed wooliness is indeed a sign of the times.
As far as Alex Jones and Ickes are concerned, they are small pools for those beginning to swim in the Dark Waters of the Scam, but then, as far as I can see so is Krishnamurti, and we all need to start somewhere, preferably with water wings.

Yes, it is a battle for souls, as it always has been.

Blessings and light on the Path to you,

Anonymous said...

Maybe we should all 'Lighten Up' a bit..lol!
Here's one of my great teachers..(--_--)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vX1CvW38cHA

Respects..R4Ever.

Justcounting said...

Comment nr 151.

Anonymous said...

false prophets,the test was set a long time ago,all the great teachers did it they gave away all their personal posessions for a humble life of teaching man the truth,things havent changed,the same test still applies the same evil is out confusing destroying,and the same spirit that taught the truth teachers is still there teaching us understanding and filling us with love.So where do we all stand I know where I stand,to try and perfect my harmonization with all that surrounds me,peace is all I desire Absolute Peace.

Anonymous said...

Dudblin Mick here

I was thinking if Jesus were back I don't think he would be doing Oprah with Eckhart. No that one is not resonating.

I doubt he would be seen in glowing robes on his his website (loved that one by the way). I think you would probably find him at the flea markets recommending various things to the down and out.

Most likely he would tell them to pass on the aluminum teflon coated fry ware and go for the cast iron, bronze and copper casually explaining if you want to find me in your heart it is well your brain centers and chakras are working properly.

He would most likely be pointing out the dandelions and other assorted weeds people were stepping over could help to heal them.

He would definitely tip you off about the federal reserve and the money changers as well as the organ harvesters and implicitly warn about trying to merge with them so we can all be one. They want your blood they want your soul.

The modern day pharisees who run the churches have made such a mess of this concept of Lucifer that most treat it as a fairy tale. He is definitely a real spirit however. More an archangel who who decided he was going to run the heavens and ended up here.

Everyone seems to be recommending books here so I will throw in the phoenix journals primarily the chapter on satan.

He is an old acquaintance of Jesus the one he met in the desert and promised to elevate him to 33 degree.

If you recall monkey boy still speaks fondly of him you may remember on inauguration day he spoke of the angel who still rides in the whirlawind. He is still riding alright and he is shifting to fifth gear now.

If Jesus were still around I think he would be laying low so as not to be swarmed by blackhawk helicopters.

Anonymous said...

I wonder if it's possible to make a long story short?

Perhaps I'm wrong but the impression I get is Les believes in God as a person, a Supreme Personality, and Tolle does not.

Les is a personalist and Tolle is an impersonalist.(?)

Tolle is, as someone has already noted, Advaita light.

There is Dvaita and Advaita.

The difference is remarkable.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous who mentioned Krishnamurti a few comments back has a great point. The spark that lights ones fire which can be used to burn the rubbish handed down as "received wisdom", the stuff of churches, schools, and the like, can come from a variety of sources, many of which will seem lame to others, or even to oneself at a later time.

This Tolle fellow, however, is truly gelatinous, though if he gets some soul even wondering about the official construct of time, then we have a winner. He has taken a single angle of Krishnamurti's vision and run it into the ground. Les has it right...ask what they get in exchange for their wisdom, an what of it did they give away. They tried to make old Krish a God, and he just said NO! I know of no other example of this, and just for that, he deserves a look.

Another key element is how long and with how many repetitions does the enlightenment take? With Krishnamurti, I got it about halfway through "Think on These Things" and never felt a need to revisit him. When one learns the power of unfettered observation, the rest takes care of itself. After all, doesn't unbiased observation tell us everything we need to know about 911, Israel, and the word banking cartel?

Keep up the great work, Les.

papillon said...

Something I read....
If you want to know your soul, forget who you think you are and what you think you know. Just be, instead, in the glorious silence, the beautiful presence of yourself- the you you have always been and always will be.
Let go your quest, your search for the spiritual path.
Your concepts of journeying, exploring, realization, actualization....
You complicate the sublimely simple with your ego's cravings
You have nowhere to go, to travel, to find, to explore...
You are here, now, in the truth you never left.
Open your eyes and your heart
You are home

European American said...

Do any of you know what Tolle does with the money generated from one of his "shows?" What he does with his "cut?" Maybe he stacks it on the table in front of himself and touches it repeatedly saying "My precious, my precious." Or maybe he gives 90% to animal shelters, trying to make a small dent in the genocide that takes place there. Who knows? Who cares? It's his business. It's HIS karma. Money's just energy, anyway, and you take that energy on to the body...the nervous system when you generate it. It's influence is immediate. If people want to pay $2, $20 or $200 to get "turned on", it's their choice. And if you want to charge $2, $20 or $200, it's your choice. Really, it comes down to motive on both sides.

Any body ever checked how much the band U2 is charging for seats for their upcoming tour (2 and a half hours of what)? Then check out how much the band Muse is charging. Then you'll see who is for real and who's the con artists.

David Icke is for real. How do I know that? I brought him to Albuquerque 10 years ago just to turn people on to his message. I broke even, financially. It was a huge success! People walked out inspired and uplifted, thanking me for the show. Tickets were $25 for the 8 hour event.

Next month I will be bringing him to the Pacific NW. We are charging the equivalent of what I charged 10 years ago in NM. Am I going to make a huge profit? Hell no. (as of today, I may make zero profit. We will see.) Money is a very important "energy" that I have immense respect for. I like how it enables me to move around in this relative world I live in. It has power attached to it, to do "good" and to do "not so good," depending on the "motive" behind it. I respect it. And I know, first hand, David sees it similarly. And "maybe" Tolle sees it in that same light. But I don't know, for sure about him. But I knew he inspired people to be better people, just as David does. I support those who want to nourish and support others. I "suspect" Tolle is not motivated by how many dollars he can generate at his next show. I've listened to many tapes of his and felt genuinely inspired, overall. Inspired to try and do good in my life. To help others...humans, animals, all creatures big and small. Has he brainwashed me with that silent delivery? I hope so. Whatever it takes. The silence is deafening now. I love it and live it. And, I move on. Haven't followed what Tolle is up to now...sound's like he's pushing somebody's buttons, though...that's good. Whatever it takes.

Ish said...

Good to see Bawa in your link :)

http://www.bmf.org

Visible said...

I was at the fellowship on Overbrook for several years. He's the real deal as are the others mentioned. The rest under discussion are not and it is ONLY through a real guru that one can obtain to the lasting stages. It might be that these others help with basic preliminaries but I know that their teachings and techniques do not take and so I am duty bound to say so.

I could easily be doing the same thing and I think with a bit more dynamics in presentation BUT I know better. There are serious issues that have to do with all of this that many people miss. The desire to help is admirable but as has been shown time and again, those who believe themselves empowered to instruct and heal often cause more harm than good.

I've got some pretty fixed ideas of what is going on here with most of these people and I want no part of it myself nor do I get anything but the desire to be doing something else when I hear them speak.

Out of deference to the sensibilities of those who have some attraction to these individuals and who believe they are receiving something of value I hold back on saying what I might be inclined to say otherwise. Everyone has to find out for themselves and critics can also cause more harm than good.

There is something unmistakable about one who is a clear channel for the one. With all others there is some reservation that does not always express itself as such. Whether one is made to remain with such people or whether one is led to a deeper well depends on the sincerity and determination of the seeker.

Any of us can take from what has been said and remodel it for the public and any of us can gain the stage presence and familiarity with the material just by doing it. There are thousands at work in their little fiefdoms and there's even more like Kim Eng who are presenting an amalgam of processes that I call Modern Dance Shake and Bake Enlightenment, not to be confused with Stovetop Rice.

Many of these people actually believe that they are genuine teachers and have convinced themselves of this. I'll leave it to each of you to walk the highway of understanding concerning what is authentic and real and what is not.

Anonymous said...

Vis said -
"There are serious issues that have to do with all of this that many people miss."

True dat, bro.

"real deals" remain as rare as always. but you have made the pertinent points many many times in many ways, and I can add nothing. bottom line: we're all both 'on our own' and 'never alone' (heh heh).

respects,
bholanath

Anonymous said...

I guess I am a bit irreverent today.
I clicked on the video link you provided.
I watched for a while, but got distracted by the prospect of the "church of oprah" video that was on the sidebar.
I switched to that show.

I came away thinking that perhaps you should just go water the garden or something.
Pay no attention to the artificial distractions.
Please continue on your path.
It's a good path.
Please continue to share your energy with us.
It is a good energy.

Anonymous said...

A true teacher would not charge a cent for his insights and philosophy.Not only that he would not give it out willy nilly to all and sundry.

I see Tolles (Kim)side kick charges nearly $300 for a weekend.You can listen to Tolle and the Dalai Lama for between 60-200 dollars.

seems to me that these people have turned the ancient wisdom into another form of entertainment!!

Anonymous said...

Thank you Les for all you contribute here!!

I listened to some of Tolle's DVD's and read some of his books..they were interesting. I can see the good in them...yet they also missed the mark. Then someone pointed me to Tony Parson's message. I really found more in Parson's talks than I did from Tolle's. Plus...Listening to many of Tony's talks made me laugh alot...definitely good fun.

Tony Parsons: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iApFCwhRZTE

Anonymous said...

The simple truth is quite simple..

Srila Prabhupada warns of jealous people accepting service in ISKCON

“There are many jealous people in the dress of Vaisnavas in this Krsna consciousness movement, and they should be completely neglected. There is no need to serve a jealous person who is in the dress of a Vaisnava.”

“Our mission is to serve (…). Not that you take the place of the guru. That is nonsense, very dangerous. Then everything will be spoiled. As soon as you become ambitious to take the place of guru-gurusu nara-matih . That is the material disease.”
(Srila Prabhupada Conversation, April 20, 1977)

“That is the difficulty. Everyone sees that “Some way or other, I become guru. Then so many persons will offer me respect. Somehow or other, create some situation. Then I become guru.” This is going on. Not bona fide guru. (…) They will drink, they will hunt after woman and have some attractive singing or dancing and become guru. What is meaning of guru, they do not know. Somehow or other become popular and become guru. This is going on.”
(Srila Prabhupada Conversation, May 2nd, 1976)

European American said...

I think some people are confusing "teacher" with "Guru." How many of you paid tuition at Stanford or Harvard? How much did you pay? Say again? What did you learn about God, there? And how is that education making you a better person?

"Understand this (above all); By surrender (of self-will) to the Guru, by (sensitive inward and outward) questioning (of the Guru), and by service (to the Guru), those (sages and Gurus) who have realized the truth will (be able to) convey their wisdom to you"
Bhagavad Gita, 4:3

Lot's of people have a "money stress." They can't figure out it's energy (really, they can't handle it), so they turn against it and, any one who knows how to generate it, Whether the use of that money/energy is to uplift life or destroy life, it doesn't matter to them. The people with the money stress project onto those who don't. They WANT what they can't handle and turn against those who don't necessarily WANT but can handle it. That's why there are sooooooo many issues with having money and not having it...one of the BIG button pushers.

At every moment, we as humans, are either damaging or supporting life that is so intimately ourselves...at every moment.

Anonymous said...

Something in the "real world" always seems to happen to me in synchronicity to what is being discussed on LV's blogs.
At the supermarket today I was in the check out line behind a large order & was looking at the "literary fare." There was People mag., of course, the celeb. mags, National Enquirer & the discount books -- and lo and behold, one was E. Tolle's "New Earth" IIRC w/ the Oprah Winfrey seal of approval on it! $5 off cover price for $8.50. There was also a minibook on Kabala and the "red thread".
Note no books by A. Jones, Icke,
Krishnamurti, Webster Tarpley, or
Mike Ruppert at the checkout line.
I wonder why? Is Tolle "kosher approved" to stand next to National Enquirer? Well as the saying does go, "Wake up! We're in the check out line" indeed.

Thomas Victor said...

I like Tolle.
His angle is similar to Buddha and pure Hinduism (as in the Bhagavad Gita) and is VERY difficult to understand since it says only the SPIRIT is real and that the 'MATERIAL WORLD' is illusion. So
1) No need to despair watching the horrible stuff that is going on these days. Focus on the spirit and on projects that bring one closer to one's own spirit and to the spirit in others
2) That doesn't mean that one should not care about what is going on in the material world, one must do one's absolute best. But don't pin your happiness to whether your efforts in the material world are rewarded or not ('karma yoga')

Still alive said...

On the wiki page it says his "for profit company..."

Sounds like another BSer to me. And I`m seldom wrong when it comes to weeding out these clowns.

Just another suit and tie parading around as something else.

Anonymous said...

Dublin Mick here

This is a thread with a life of it's own. I love this site.

To each his own not trying to toss water on anybody's fire here but it is O.K. to hunt women if they happen to be women that are hunting you.

Now let me explain we live in the world of nature. What happens when negative energy meets positive energy? It causes lightning in the sky, it causes a child to be formed in the womb of the mother. It is the highest form of nature.

Man needs the his own energy exuded from the female in tantric sex and woman needs her own energy exuded by the male in the same situation. Woman is negative and man is positive.

One of my favorite masters was the mad monk Rasputin of Russia who caused quite a storm with his contact with the female nobility of Russia. He was simply gathering energy to aid his quest.

Becoming a eunich is not the gateway to enlightenment. It is more of the silly notions propagated in the West.

The animal world is much more aware than this. If a horse breeder had a stallion who ignored the mares in a quest for enlightenment he would probably think something wrong with him for good reason.

As Rasputin used to say our souls belong to God our bodies belong to us. He loved Portuguese wine also. He is well known to have predicted the coming horrors of world war I which he advised the Russian czar to avoid at all cost.

His warning was if he were killed by the Russian people Russia would survive and prosper but if it were at the hand of the royal family all of the royals would perish and Russia would be descend into savagery.

As we know one of the royals poisoned and shot Rasputin.

No that concept reminds me of the flowing white robe websites with halos around their heads. It is a myth propagated to rob you of your sexuality which is part of the physical world you live in.

I have no idea what Krishnamurta or Srila Prabhupada have predicted but I am willing to listen.

The master who came up with wine women and song was my favorite.

Anonymous said...

Well I too was with M.R.Bawa Muhaiyadeen at the Fellowship in Philly back in the day. And as Les has said, Bawa really and truly was, the 'real deal'. No question about it.

It was Les who actually turned me on to Bawa, and when I went over to see Bawa the following day (way back in 1976), Bawa himself told me that he was aware of me and he had known that I would come to him someday, ever since he hasd seen me back when I was a young sadhu wandering around Sri Lanka (Ceylon) in early 1970. Bawa seemed to know everything about me, and about Les too, and moreover everything he ever told me about God, about man, and about what was to come... has all proven to be true. He treated me like his very own son, and so I stayed with him for a long time... that is until his groupies became too annoying and so I eventually drifted away. And in that, Les had already preceded me. Michael Green was there too.

I also totally agree with Visible when he says: "There is something unmistakable about one who is a clear channel for the one. With all others there is some reservation..."

As I noted before, many of these instant enlightenment guru types do believe, or at least they pretend that they are, genuine teachers.

However, I personally find no value from, and thus no attraction to, Tolle, or to any others of his ilk. But thats mainly because I find no real substance in mere words and seemingly profund but shallow talk, or teachings. Tolle does not possess or know or understand anything that I have not already realized long ago. So he might as well be a mere actor in a play. And in fact, that is all he really is. What can I say? For me, his talk is empty and is devoid of any real significance. I also do not feel that anyone else, beginners included, will ever gain anyting from listening to him. They will only acquire thoughts and wrods and ideas, but they will never become awakened or enlightened or discover what their essence and source is by going to Tolle. He cannot give or show anyone anything. He can only distract or obstruct one from clarity and truth.

Everyone has a connection to the higher light, the supreme Godhead... already. It is innate and intrinsic within them, within their very soul. It reqires no teaching, no belief, no words or ideas.

All it takes is for one to simply and humbly surrender and turn over control to the infallible guidance of that One, that transcendental divine force, who is the very highest light and supreme intelligence - the benevolent and all-knowing and all-loving power that is the original source of awareness and being - the supreme and imperishable Lord of all souls.

The connection to the divine power, to the supreme light, the guidance of the One... is always here and it is available to everyone, in less than an instant, without any intermediary. Nothing else is necessary.

No Eckhart Tolle is necessary or helpful, nor a Sai Baba, nor an Adi Da, nor a Bhaktivedanta Swami or even somone like Sri Ramana or Ramakrishna or Jesus or Buddha.

And if you really cannot do without having a few words and sggestions, then simply go read 'The Impersonal Life' or Lao Tzu. But then turn within and beyond. Tolle and all the rest will only get in your way.

And btw, Les had it right before this debate ever started.
Peace be with you all.

Long John

Anonymous said...

I would have to disagree with you Thomas Victor. You may like Tolle, and that's of course, clearly your choice.

And fyi, his "angle" is not similar to either Buddha or Hinduism, and especially not the Bhagavad Gita. So I don't think you really understand the fact that Tolle is much more merely a wavering mixture of fashionable yet pseudo neo-advaita and bland guru-cult theatre, than he is of any real buddhism or hinduism (which is actually a very broad spectrum to say the least). And the idea that you gave that he is "difficult to undertand" is absurd, and this "only the spirit is real and the material world is illusion' is only one particular philosophical orientation among many others within so-called hinduism and/or the vedanta of the upanishads. With all due respect, I don't think you really know or understand what you are talking about here.

And imo, this guy Tolle is also not merely saying: only "focus on the spirit", but then also do karma yoga. His message is not that at all, bu it is scripted, and he uses a pseudo non-dual approach to evade the real hard issues and make people think that they are already enlightened and that everything is all perfect and that none of what is really happening is actually really happening. Tolle is like some spiritual Valium or Prozac for nitwits who are willing to hand over more than just a little money to have some charlatan on stage tell them that they are all OK and that enlightenment is theirs for free, if they would believe it. Which, they do, because they bought it.

Sooner or later those people will truly wake up, but by then Tolle will have made his money, and the gys that pull Oprah's strings will have achieved their agenda, and another cult will have served its purpose and faded back into the matrix.

Long John

Visible said...

There's a new Smoking Mirrors up-

A Walk in the Park means Watch your Step.

Anonymous said...

Long John

So you know Les way back. You have anything to say about this kundalini awakening of his and where that places him as a teacher? I'm asking from a positive viewpoint. I'm fascinated by the near telepathic awareness he has with his readers and the depth of his seeing. I am a long time watcher here and a long time seeker who has been to many ashrams and I am getting more here than from most.

TK

Anonymous said...

Dublin Mick here

I thoroughly agree with Long John. Once you have met the real thing you become very skeptical and hard to fool.

It reminds me of what Geronimo said when they asked him about his medicine men. He said there are many medicine men, some have the power and some just talk. Priceless

Anonymous said...

TK,

I don't feel in a position to comment a whole lot on Les's kundalini awakening, or him as a teacher. But I will only say this little bit...

I was among those of Les's circle of associates back in those days, and what extraordinary times they were indeed, but these kind of details about Les I don't really feel at liberty to divulge. And what I know would only be my own subjective observations anyway.

Les knows himself far better than anyone else, so I will defer to him to share that sort of information about himself. He can tell you much better than I.

But I will say this, that I hold the highest regard for Les, and he was a very special and magical influence on my life back in those days. I shared some qite profound and extraordinary journeys together with Les, passing as we did through the doors of perception and into the mystic, the great mystery of the divine.

And there was no denying that in those days Les embodied a unique and powerful force, a presence and a consciousness that was beyond the comprehension and ability to understand for the average person. I was a witness to this on sevearl special and unique occasions, but also in many simple day to day circmstances as well.

There was a small circle of several other close friends besides myself who were there too and some of whom also took part in that cosmic lila, and in those mystical other worldly events. Les most certainly did possess or manifest the kundalini shakti to an extraordinary degree unlike anyone else I have ever known or heard about.

Looking back on it all now, in a certain way the circle around Les had a rather unusual and unique similarity to Sri Ramakrishna and his small group of friends, admirers and devotees, in many respects.

Beyond this, I will only say that Les, as enigmatic as he can be and is, is very much the "real deal".

I know that Les would be reticent to admit this due to his honesty and humility that derives from being surrendered to the light of truth, but there are few if any of these modern spiritual teachers that come anywhere close to being as genuine as Les. And I think most of the readers do see that.

And TK, I too have "been to many ashrams" and have seen a number of both noteworthy and obscure spiritual gurs and sages and such over the decades (I lived and wandered about India for several years at different times beginning in late 1969, and later on as well), but as you say, there is indeed far more light and truth to be found right here, than any ashram. And yes, "telepathic awareness" is not at all uncommon for Les, in my experience.

So TK, I hope what I have shared satisfies your interest and curiosity.

And Les, feel free to delete any of this that you don't wish to make public.

LongJohn

Anonymous said...

Some folks just need a TIT. The first think we want when we come into this world is a TIT. Some of us go to the grave and have never gotten off the TIT. (Or some substitute).This Tolle character appears to me to be just another substitute TIT. Some will use drugs, alchohol, smoke, porn, money, or all the above and more. Some will turn to the likes of this guy or any number of others who are more than happy to have you, since for them the listening crowd to them combines to make the GIANT TIT they need to feed their GIANT EGO. Mother's milk will put you to sleep.(Mother Nature).We must simply wake up to the TRUTH. We are [ALL] spirit beings, living the human experience. This life is what [WE] make it, and in the end is where [WE] take it.
[HE] has told you O mortal, what is good;and what does GOD require of you? but to do justice,and love kindness,and to walk humbly with [HIM].
How much Mumbo Jumbo Sour Milk do you need to suck down before you realize how simple is the[TRIP]. What your looking for isn't here. All that happens here, stays here. All that you aquire here stays here. It's not what you get, but what you [GIVE] that goes before you and gains you [WORTH].Let your spirit speak,let it go and point it on ahead to the best place you can possibly imagine. Then go with [IT] and never look back.
It work for me.
Later J.J.

su said...

I would not follow Tolle into the desert but then again I would not follow you either.
I think Tolle has opened many people's perspective and that can't be bad.
To try and state you need to investigate him makes me question a little - pity I have enjoyed the ride till now.
And you know Ramana Maharshi, Yogananda, they all said the same thing. If you said hey but what about the Californian fires they would say who is it that wants to know.
I guess at the end of the day you can awaken in the dream or you can awaken to the dream.

Visible said...

I question everyone and everything but under no circumstances would Tolle be in the same ballpark with the others you have mentioned. Not in my mind anyway.

There's a difference between writing a metaphysical blog that's no more than a back and forth (as this one proves to be) and traveling to different venues in the role of a teacher setting practices and principles for a hefty price.

I don't know what Tolle's up to or what makes him tick deep inside where the watchworks are. I have looked at the marketplace it occupies as well as the activities his consort is up to. And, as uninformed as the judgment may be I an inclined to very very suspicious of anything that comes by Oprah or anyone who would appear on Oprah to begin with.

People are, of course, free to make up their own minds. I have gotten nothing from Tolle and too many things about him set off my antenna; mostly just the way he comes across. This could mean only that he does not sing for me personally and I would not indicate more.

What I had to say here way by way of an experiment to see what would happen and it accomplished my purposes in that regard.

Daisy said...

Good post. I actually quite like Tolle, mainly because his "Power of Now" (cheesy title I admit) was one of the first spiritual books I read back when I was 15, and therefore I see him as instrumental in my 'waking up' as it were. You might not see Tolle's work as revolutionary, but it was to me at the time. That's not to say that others haven't said the same thing in a better way though.

Visible said...

Well Daisy, like you said, you were 15. I imagine that this man helps some people and that is to the good. However, my problem with him is about the money. It's a tough call because you have to make some money but he's charging enormous fees to tell people things I have heard better put by many another and said long before he got up to it.

It could just be a personality thing. His presentation annoys me very quickly. It's soporific and hypnotic but not in a good way. It's just my take. I feel like he's not connected to the real source and more of one more new age parrot making big bucks. I could be wrong.

I could do similar myself. I have many readers and a lot of background in performing and so on and so forth but I don't feel like being a circus animal and as for money people are free to donate and they don't get reminded to either.

m_astera said...

I'm with you on this part, Les. It's been my experience that something starts to go wrong when a person begins making their living as a spiritual guide.

It may be a different story for a true "realized" master, but there aren't too many of them out there, compared to the amount of people who want to be seen as one and get paid well for doing it.

I look at the people who I began serious schooling with over twenty years ago. Those who wanted to be spiritual gurus and get paid for it are stuck, stuck, stuck. Possibly because pretending you already are the master, putting that image forth to others, stops your development.

Michael

Visible said...

Jesus Michael. How did you know I made a comment here? This makes me feel like I just saw a card trick that I couldn't figure out (grin).

Yeah... I had this sort of a thing happen to me in most places where I lived for any length of time. That fellow Long John can attest to the guru spiritual teacher thing being laid on me.

Even early on I didn't want anything to do with that and a couple of times i deliberately did things to break the situation. It didn't work. Apparently that was just a teaching mechanism.


There are very few real teachers; bonafide spiritual masters around, especially in these times. One can be intuitive and eloquent but that does not make them a liberated well that puts forth only clear and power saturate water.

For some reason, most people decide they are going to be a spiritual master and that the mastery will come in the process. Personally I know that I am not at that state and it would embarrass the hell out of me to assume it. I don't know how people can do that. They're different.

I've seen some real bullshit situations on my way from there to here. Most people posing as a master; I only have to stand there for a minute or two before it is clear if they have the goods or not. It blows my mind to see people taking in the recycled homilies from con artists but they must need it.

I just want to stay close to the ground and not put on any airs or get into the business of collecting money. This is a serious thing for me. It's my life and so there are the obvious pitfalls one needs to avoid. The others think they'll just skate through but my experience has been that they don't accomplish that. God doesn't care for people impersonating him unless he tells them to.

m_astera said...

No big trick. I must have subscribed to comments back then and it showed up in my inbox.

I've been known to say that the biggest "sin" one can commit against their own spiritual development is to pretend to be a master for purposes of ego gratification.

I never wanted to be a spiritual guru so perhaps that's why I never considered it. I made a living for many years as a craftsman and designer, now I work in agriculture. When I teach, it's only what I really know and have down pat, and if I don't know I say so.

I'm not a very good phony because I keep forgetting and reverting to being me.

Besides all that, I wouldn't get away with it. It's taken this long to figure out a few rules that run my life; two things I know for sure I'm not allowed is to do anything simply for money or for ego gratification. I don't even try that shit anymore because it never works.

Visible said...

Ah... so that explains it. No doubt others have that too and will be around.

It comes down to honesty Michael. Lying to everyone else is one thing and lying to yourself is another. I had some opportunities for serious success as a singer songwriter and as an actor, probably stand up comedy too but i could not play the game. I just couldn't. If I tried I couldn't. I had to accept that I might never fulfill the dreams I had of reaching a large audience with the substance of my soul and since I was writing for the divine anyway it was okay as long as the intended heard it.

All that stuff is chimerical anyway and not a day passes when I don't see that I am better off by far than I might have been.

You're either honest or you're not. There's no middle ground and lying to yourself is suicide.

m_astera said...

I hear you clear, Les. The only people I seem to be allowed to lie to are criminals trying to harm me or rob me, e.g. the government and their minions, and fortunately I don't have to do that often.

And if I had been "successful" at some of the dreams I had, then I would still be stuck there. No thanks.

As it is, it appears we got the experiences we needed and the lessons too, and now we reach the audience we were meant to reach with the message we were meant to deliver. It wouldn't have been nearly as much fun knowing how it would all work out ahead of time.

est said...

l v,
just coming across this old thread
the first i commented on, i believe
though i had been reading along
for awhile

i must have missed where you said
you would not be showing up in comments
well here you have some comments
that could be full posts !

so you're heading east in a few days
i envy you in that you can travel
i guess i've finally given up
i'm not going anywhere
ever again
i will pave your way with good intentions, though
est

est said...

-
hmm ...
i see i almost wrote :
'the road to hell, is paved with good intentions'

what i meant of course, is :
the road to heaven, is paved with good intention [s]
-