Wednesday, November 18, 2009

Taking Refuge in Green Tara.

I’m going to bypass The Petri Dish’s natural place in the rotation this morning. I’m not in a cultural, anthropological mood. Sometimes routine is going to give you just that and we’ve had so much to say about so many things and you can see for yourself what’s going on today... not much; Obama’s in China and whining about Iran; apart from that, most everything is going on in the back room and we won’t know what new crimes are on the way until they commit them so... let’s head over to Origami.

Over the last several years I have been engaging the attention of several expressions of the divine as they specifically relate to my situation. I’ve been well aware of my shortcomings and weaknesses as they have to do with my aspirations and the course of my life. For awhile I was focused on the Amitabha Buddha. That actually started much earlier but then my studies took me in another direction. Most recently, about six years ago, the Amitabha Buddha began to come into my mind again. My attraction was based on the ability to be reborn in The Western Pure Land without having to reincarnate here again. In other words, you are allowed to work out your karma there. That has a great attraction for me. I’m not fond of the idea of coming back here.

Then, about four years ago, I had some experiences with Ganesha. This happened on my first trip to Italy, to the Umbria province. I began to see this large elephant character dancing across the hills that surrounded the house we had rented. He was in my thoughts constantly and I was even composing an album of songs about him that are still in a holding pattern over the recording booth along with a great deal of other material that’s gotten sidetracked by various other projects that are now also sidetracked as well.

I didn’t know much about Ganesha and hadn’t been much interested in him. I thought he was just one of those household gods and I knew he was favored by merchants and business people and I’m not one of those by any stretch of the imagination. It came as quite a surprise to me to find out about him; Lord Ganapati as he is also known. He is the remover of our obstacles to Self-Realization. That became a key interest of mine concerning him. He is also the Lord of the Devic Realm and the Devic Realm has always been a major attraction of mine. He is also the divine patron of the writing arts. The more I read about him, the more he dovetailed with so many similarities in my nature and aspirations.

I considered the humorous absurdity (on the surface) of communicating with this aspect of God possessing an elephant’s head ...and it manifested in a particular song I intend to record whenever this holding pattern gets clearance from the tower. One of the lines in the chorus is, “If your God can walk on water and rise from the dead, my God can have an elephant’s head”. I chanted the following mantra a great deal over the recent years; “Om Hari Sri Ganapatiyay nama Avig namas du.” It’s phonetically rendered as I don’t have the actual text on hand. Basically what it says is an entreaty to have the obstacles to one’s self-realization removed.

During some of my Vitamin K sessions over the last year I had become more and more aware of the feminine principle as it operates in my life and in the cosmos surrounding. In the initial period following my kundalini awakening, I was a devotee of Kali and most especially Shiva. I often found myself spontaneously in the Nataraja pose and would remain in it for periods of time. Certainly when the force of the kundalini initially made its way up my spine, I was very aware of the feminine nature of the force and a ‘very’ powerful force it is.

One of the things that is happening in this time, as the Aquarian Age comes into power, is the feminization of consciousness which relates to the awakening of new powers of the heart and mind in humanity. On the negative side, it has been expressing itself in certain sexual practices that have convinced quite some number of people that they are something they are not. The point of the awakening is meant to activate higher centers in the human psyche but, as it the usual course in the manifest world and especially in this Kali Yuga, it has detoured to the lowest common denominator. People are free to take exception with me over this but it’s not a judgment on my part concerning homoeroticism. That is a stage everyone passes through, the same way that they are born into different cultures and clothed in bodies with differing skin types. My point is simply that the larger number of people engaged in these things are confused about the intended means of expression.

So... what is happening to me now has been coming for awhile; a sort of full circle thing. I found myself a few months ago trying to remember this chant that I had been employing for a little while a few years ago to Green Tara. You can see it at the top of the page. It came to me as I was lying in bed and I began to recite it. Since then it has now become a standard throughout my day and can occupy my attention for increasing periods of time.

Once again I found that I knew far less about this divine aspect than I had thought. It turns out that she provides some very similar services as that of Ganesha. I was especially surprised to find that she has manifested in many cultures around the world at many different times in many different guises and the remarkable similarity in her name gave me a bit of a jolt. Then I saw her connections to the Amitabha Buddha as well. I continue to be surprised by the synchronicity that discloses itself as I go.

When it comes to worship and the pursuit of the divine, I am a very simple guy. I’m not interested in the intricacies of detail; the varieties of personification and manifestation, the minutiae of rituals and devotional routines. I’ve got the one chant and that’s enough and I have the image of Green Tara and that combines all of the other Tara’s so, I’m good to go. Interestingly, the graphic of Tara that you see in the first link is the cover art that I chose for my “Songwriter” CD when I released it about eight years ago. She’s always been hovering around me; a sort of peripheral presence. I have spoken to her generically as the mother now and again but she is coming front row center now and I couldn’t be more pleased.

It has something to do with my recent crisis (and it was a crisis). I try not to be a drama queen because it does no good. Help is going to come from only one place. It’s not going to come from other people. They are as helpless as you are. A certain moral and spiritual support is always possible but I am a realist when it comes to such matters. Given the nature of what I’ve been talking about here, that preceding sentence might cause some to burst out into laughter. It made me laugh. I have the advantage of certain direct experiences so, for me, it’s not like; I hope someone is out there/in there. That’s not a matter of debate for me. I’ve had a difficult route getting to where I am and had nothing but bad luck with my lifetime of artistic endeavors and all the assorted attempts at making the practical side of life work for me (that’s changed a lot over recent years) but in the matter of spiritual experiences, I don’t feel cheated in the least. Certainly that’s more important than the other things.

Since I have ratcheted up the intensity of my relationship with Green Tara there have been noticeable changes in my internal state. Things have evened out remarkably. I’m pretty excited in anticipation of my next opportunity for extra dimensional travel. I expect some very interesting events. At the same time it doesn’t matter if or when it happens either because what I am getting on the more gradual route is exceedingly fulfilling. This all came about because I was asking with real intensity for clarity in my practices and perspectives. I had been asking for awhile but I did not stop asking, I asked with the assurance that I would get an answer and it appears that I did. You always get an answer. However, if you leave for some other location and then the postman shows up with your package, whose fault is it?

For some it is enough to have just one image and ideal that will carry them beyond the ocean of birth and death; more power to them. For some of us it is a series of progressions that change as our understanding changes. Tomorrow, Green Tara might change herself into something else... or not. It isn’t the appearance that is most important but the essential and everlasting truth that shines like sunlight through the stained glass image which our mind presents to us. There is no Green Tara outside myself and apart from me. She is the living presence of my higher nature and is as real as I allow her to be. I have written this not to introduce any of you to any particular form which the divine is inclined to take. This is just to say that it happens.

While all of the chaos and confusion of the world continues apace, in this massively transforming world of the moment, there are islands of stability in the midst. These islands are within and have withstood and will withstand anything the phenomenal world can throw at them. One would be advised to ‘take refuge’ in something real and enduring. There’s a welcoming and compassionate embrace that is tailored for every taste.

Visible sings: Lord Ganapati by Les Visible♫ Lord Ganapati ♫

The New Shangri-La


DumbGoyNot said...

Hi Les,

This post of your got me to thinking that my experience has been that the best idea for me in regard to my spirituality is to try to avoid making it too complicated.There is an old saying something to the effect of that if someone's religion can't be understood by a young child then it has missed the mark. In the New Testament of the Christian Bible each one of the gospels was written from a different perspective of who Jesus was, with each writer recording the things he thought to be the most important. But the apostle John was Jesus' best friend, so in some ways his insights into who Jesus was are different from the others; he recorded several statements Jesus made that are very thought provoking. Here are a few examples:

Verily, verily I say unto thee, Except a man be born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God. Jn. 3:3

Marvel not that I said unto thee ye must be born again. Jn. 3:7

I am the way, the truth, and the light, no man comes unto the father but by me. Jn. 14:6

Verily, verily I say unto you, He that enters not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbs up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. Jn. 10:1

Verily, verily I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep. Jn. 10:7

It has been said of Jesus that either he was who he said he was, or he was a stark raving lunatic. He stepped into my life in 1970 when I was on death's doorstep behind heavy drug use. I was 23 years old then, and he has delivered me from death's doorstep several more times since then, mostly rescuing me from things I got myself into out of sheer stupidity. I'm 63 years old now and I'm not as stupid as I used to be. I'll be glad to tell you more if you're interested.

Your friend,


DumbGoyNot said...


Hey Les,

If you don't want to post my blog I can understand, and I won't be offended if you don't. It's not like I'm going to get mad and go away and never come back if you don't post it.


Visible said...

I have no idea what blog you are talking about so I can hardly know what to do or not to do in relation to it.

As for the other, I can appreciate your sentiments from where you are standing, however, blanket assumptions to cover the whole of the human race isn't likely to rouse my passionate interest. I've read that book many times, I don't need it clarified for me.

He also said, "In my Father's house are many mansions. if it were not true I would not have told you so."

Anonymous said...

Terra (Tara) is earth. We choose to be here, before her for self searching. What joy is there for this place!

"feminine nature of the force and a ‘very’ powerful force it is"

Health and good welfare follow you as you follow her.

If you forget she wont. If you cant figure out the way home, she remembers. An elephant she becomes

Mother is she, and from her navel like the lord himself, you have come.

Anonymous said...

oh green tara
I hadnt heard of you before
I respect you deep down
deep in my core
my only law
is to love all men
and women
and children
untill the end
and all the animals
and all the tree's
all the birds
the sky
the plants and the seeds
everything in existence
here on earth
everything earth mother
gave to birth
so I ask of your assistance
for this time
I dont care for possesions
of the material kind
a long time ago
my mind was blind
you opened my heart
allowed me to rhyme
and to all of you
who made me one
I thank you all
all of you shine like a sun
you are the light
the moon the stars
one day we will all be together
not in peices or shards

nina said...

It was said Tara wears striped leggings, but they look more like bracelets, wide bands of gold.
Yes, this is an appearance comment, but so much is made of details in these artworks.
Thank you for all this information, especially the transliterated chant.

John said...

How curious. A few months ago I put this version on my phone as a ringtone.

Dammerung said...

I feel like you're guilty of betraying your culture and background to a certain extent. What right do you as a Westerner have to claim the Hindu deities as your heritage? You're white, you're European! You weren't born into that culture either genetically or otherwise. It's not as if Western culture doesn't have a long and secret history; Hermeticism and esoteric Christianity are not only just as spiritually deep, but they are more in line with your background.

Early Christianity, as it was practiced in Egypt, had many Aeons (aspects of God) male and female. The feminine principle Sophia was equated with both the Logos and the Holy Spirit, the third triune of the Trinity. Everything you are looking for outside of your culture and genetic background can also be found within your culture and genetic background, and I think that confers more authenticity.

Just my personal opinion...

Anonymous said...

Ganapati: Lord of the Ganas

He is Lord of obstacles. Both remover of AND creator of.

"While watching the rasa dance performed by Lord Krsna and the gopis, Lord Siva beheld the beautiful face of Krsna and immediately began to dance and beat upon his small dindima drum. While Lord Shiva was dancing in ecstasy, his eldest son, GANESHA, joined him.

Lord Ganesha should be respected as a great devotee of the Lord and thus should not be disrespected as it would be an offense to a Vaishnav."

Visible said...


In that case I hope you don't catch yourself eating Chinese food or every traveling to a foreign country or learning a foreign language or engaging in anything that isn't white European but with English subtitles. I've gotten some clueless comments here but the outrageous arrogance of this one transcends anything I've ever seen before.

You sent this same comment in before only it was a lot nastier and I didn't put it up.

For your information I studied for years in the areas you mentioned and I have gained from all sides and will continue to.

We don't see much spiritual fascism around here but we have today. there's a lot of wack comments coming in today at the various blogs.

What possible business of yours could it be what I do? Do you behave this way around your associates and loved ones? Tragic.

I'm going to hold back on what I might ordinarily say to such a comment because I am more amused than anything else. You always know there are people like this out there but you don't expect to run into them.

Anonymous said...


Aryan thought is not "white." The same root is used for Hindu as with Christianity. Aryan is "lighted or enlightened." As you might love Wagner, he uses the trinity in his works for sure, but the same trinity is within the Hindu God as well.
Authenticity is in your intent and not your "culture?"

Dammerung said...

I want to defend myself for a moment here; I think you're attributing to me hostility I don't feel. However, this is an issue that I feel concerned about within myself, as well. In my town, there is a shop that sells hand-crafted Tibetan curios (junk.) I wonder, how do the Tibetans who create these things feel about the matter? Are they jealous of us because of our comparative prosperity? Are they angry at us? Do they pity us?

I myself have felt attractions to religious matters outside my own culture. For instance, the Jewish theological concept of Tzimtzum fascinates me. Kwan Yin, who hears the cries of the world, strikes me as being worthy of attention. How about vengeful, lusty Inanna of Sumer?

But it's a question of authenticity, isn't it? I don't perform any rituals, I don't live as those Buddhists do; I've read many of the Sutras but I don't strictly follow them. So wouldn't I be a hypocrite if I go around chanting mantras to Kwan Yin if I don't LIVE IN THAT WAY?

Anthropologists I've known talk about this idea, "exoticizing the other." When you take all the seemingly exotic parts of a culture and exhibit their curios but don't take the dust and the mud along with it. Isn't it insulting to them to claim an artificial kinship? If karma really matters and has an impact on birth, isn't it important that we look primarily to our own culture and religious upbringing for enlightenment, and thereby accept the slime with the gems?

I didn't mean it as a personal attack. It's something I struggle with and think about

Anonymous said...

mr damerung
maybe we go where peace takes us.

Visible said...

I do live that way.

In any case I've no desire to argue the case really and no desire to alienate you either.

All my mystical experiences have had Eastern connotations. I've never had one with western associations.

but you are discussing culture, not religion and I'm not discussing religion I am attempting to engage spiritual concepts. What a Tibetan curio shop has to do with what happens here I couldn't guess.

I hardly even know how to address something like this.

I'm not a Christian and have no intention of becoming one. I try to correlate Western and Eastern thought because, underneath the window dressing they are the same. There's only one God manifesting in many forms for the purpose of the work being done.

I do not demand that god present him/herself to me in a particular way. I accept the way it comes to me and it comes in Eastern garb and all of the religions come out of the Hindu religion.

There's a lot of occult literature that tracks the missing years of Jesus in India and books that go into some depth about John of Patmos taking mushrooms. Is the surface the reality or is what is below the surface the reality?

In any case, my purpose with this post- as I state in the post- is not to suggest that anyone should follow my lead; they aren't me... even if they are. My suggestion is that people find something to take refuge in because a storm is coming. A storm is coming indeed.

So... sometimes, in my experiences I try to illustrate for others in the hope that they find associative conditions and events in their own life that they can relate to.

I've no agenda here except that the reader should inquire within and discover the way in which the divine presents itself to them. Oh.. I think I'm pretty clear and don't have to explain.

This has been a most unusual day. I have never seen one like this for the strange nature of things said in various places. I think I am going to redouble my efforts at what I am engaged at.

Anonymous said...

The Anglo Christ is from the Greek Krista is from the Vedic Krishna.

Aryan is not an ethnicity, a race, or a nationality.

It is a way of life.

Paste this in Google:

What Is Vedic Aryan Culture

Anonymous said...

There you go Mr Visibles, I read all you write and this one kicks the arse out of it. Most likely read most of it and most likely understood little. I did try some of the links but the pooter died. I will try to look up your Green Tara elsewhere when I finish this scribble. However I do have a Tara of my own in this country. It was the seat of the ancient High Kings of Ireland of long ago. It is said to have been a grand place in its day, with all the tribes, and their kings paying allegiance to one High King, (Ard Ri, in old money). Like all things with mortals this too had its day, and the Venetian fake Jewry with their caravan of hatred was the final nail in the coffin of time which left the Celtic Irish in disarray, as The Brehon Laws were just too akin to the Apostolic way, and must not be allowed to evolve.

You see what you do to me? I read your post and I make it mine and part of who we are trying to be here, and in our lives. This is why I read and write here. I am not trying to fawn or say that which I do not understand. I write whatever you, and your writers inspire, if this be in error then I make no apology. I also notice on this site whereby there are posters who with a single lined statement in comment, will defy the most intelligent essay. For this too I make no apology. If I appear to condemn any in my scribbles, it is not the intent. If I appear to put the True Christ Jesus on a pedestal, and have my faith in him alone. I do not mean to flaunt him in the face of other thinking. This is my thinking, this is personal, I can make no apology.

I have a friend who as a driver of long haulage had a hate for dark skinned people. He would do his best on occasion to hamper them in his normal driving work. Most of us who knew him would decry his hazardous occupation, but he was hell bent on his endeavors. So a stint in the pokey for cage fighting was the cure all in the end. Not related, but necessary justice in the end. My foible was farm machinery on the roads, but I have long since gotten over it. As a driver of long years and lonely hours. I have come to realize of the similarities of life, and driving. For the most part we move about not knowing if we caused a reflex to those about us. Most of us don't care we just have our mind on our destination. Its the interruptions in our journey which will tell of our reflex reactions.

I suppose this scribble is in response to your Green Tara, (I promise to try to read it responsibly later), and the fracas you are having with a poster in The Industry of Guilt. It would appear this person is wounded ere you wrote your post, and were you to believe your God has the head of a fly or elephant. It would matter little really as to the appearance of this God. It is the the words and instructions which is of importance. There is also the possibility of people who will be offended where no offense is intended, as there is need to take offense. Something like, though love being better than no love. Which leads me to wonder of why it is needful for anyone to seek hurt in a hurtful environment.
As usual this is off the original intent of your post, but hey, I am not out to conquer the world Pinky, I am just adding my two cents and we could try to hang about in anticipation of this new age. As the song said, It Can only Get Better, (Right?).



Visible said...


What happens here is meant to happen. Dammerung has a right to his question. It just spun me around for a moment it was so different. The fellow at Mirrors where we had the little dustup is a truly fine fellow but it is the provocative exchanges that provide for the most growth.

I am well aware before I write a thing in response here how it will sound and could easily by pass the sort of things one usually gets in the rough and tumble of give and take.

I learn a lot more by reacting as I do because it results in something other than it would if I just went with the Aikido side and cape danced around it all.

I don't know if that is the saner course but this is a classroom for all of us...

Hopefully we learn as we go and not too many bruises result.

some very strange things are going on at the moment; certainly for me and I find myself becoming more and more still given what's happened already.

Anonymous said...

So nice to have the Lady Green Tara in attendance.
I've had that original Pomegranate poster print with me since early 70s, rolled it up and carried it to India and back a few times (never leave home without it!) (grin). On my wall as I write.

Isn't it astounding, as the veils part, the garbage that is spewing forth?

On a side note, just watched the amazing film (by an Israeli crew!) called "UNMISTAKEN CHILD" - the story of the 4-year search and finding of a great lama in the highlands of Nepal by his young disciple. From the funeral of the 84-yr-old dude to the recognition of the 1-yr-old. Unforgettable. Heart-exploding.

About 10 years ago I watched as the reincarnated Kalu Rinpoche pulled up to the curb in San Fran and re-united with his old buddies from his previous life. Beautiful tears. I took refuge from the 6-yr-old lama the next day. Hey, is the buddha-dharma-sangha something "foreign" or even different from my hindu/sufi practices? How could one pass up a chance like that?
Holy crap, idiocy abounds!


Anonymous said...


You are asking the best of questions !! Inanna is more or less the same a Sophia, its just what form you see it and wish to relate to it. A deep look at root words (names) over many cultures could help some?
I for one ask the same questions and wonder about place and time of birth and the DNA linking me back to my fathers and mothers. I say youre correct to look first at family and culture, but understand you didnt create it but live within it.
Thank you for sharing. Its comforting to hear the same questions in my head in others!

Anonymous said...


Brigantia, Damara, and Morrigan are a few forms of the Tara in your part of the world?

Anonymous said...

sock puppet alert!

You're dead right something is going on. The premises are completely irrational.

Thank you for the essay. It rang a number of gongs for me.

Anonymous said...

Les --

At the constant risk of being politically incorrect, I must point out several facts missing from the discussion.

Although the Aryan Invasion Theory has been discredited, other facts about the origins of Eastern Culture are not. The tattooed mummies found is Western China were white -- the male 6'6", The FEMALE 6'1" -- were 2,000 bc plus years old. They were wearing tartan, had looms identical to Irish looms and had fabric made of a form of silk (said to be wild) THAT PRE-DATED THE CHINESE INVENTION BY THOUSANDS OF YEARS.

In Indian, Chinese, Mayan, and Aztec lore there are constant mentions of civilizing Gods who were white, had beards, worshiped serpents, etc. Also Persian Culture and Indian Culture share many doctrinal similarities not the least of which was ritual use of Soma/Haoma... These Persian/Indian cultural similarities -- and by extension Celtic -- as are numerous as are the emerging similarities between Egyptian and Irish Culture -- including Tara, Queen Scotia the Pharaoh's daughter whose name gave Scotland is patrimony -- and the growing proof that the ancient system of measurement used in Egypt, Ireland, England all had common Celtic roots including the use of a 366 degree circle, the megalithic yard, etc. The henges throughout England were the first advanced observatories and their influence is seen in Egypt, all the way through Harran (Mandean/Sabian), Sumeria and onto China -- and all now being linguistically tied to Romanian/Hungarian/Irish roots (language and writing that pre-dates Sumer by 1,000 years)....

This culture -- the Celtic/Sumerian/Hungarian (Hun-Aryan, Sum-Aryan) was also white. The oldest Temples in Turkey date to 9,500 bc and were also founded by tall, white-skinned magician sorcerers who wore bird feathers and also had a tradition of the feathered serpent.

In addition, the oldest corpses found in the America's, (nine at last count) date to 5,000 plus bc and they were also white...

I fully expect to be congratulated for being a dim-witted racist -- although I take no pride in the fact that repeated civilizing attempts by Caucasians have failed -- and I can't wait for the snide references to Hitler, his Tibetan monks, fascism, colonialism, etc.

But facts are facts, people are ultimately just people and if we weren't lied to about a civilized world-wide culture pre-dating biblical accounts we wouldn't be having this discussion.

As to the Jews they are and always have been devil worshipers -- first in Canaan and the Caucaus Mountains with Baal worship -- then with the Hyksos Invasion of Egypt which they coverted to the State worship of Set (same Moloch child eating lightning/sacrifice God) and then when they were kicked out of Egypt (see Hyksos expulsion of 400,000) -- back to Israel where they re-instituted their vile practices under the guise of the Pharisees.

Let the brickbats commence!!!


Visible said...

I have no argument with your various points, however, the time of the Rishis predates all of that and you are treating only with recently recorded history and only a certain part of it.

I'm not sure what the point is because I don't see where that relates to my premise that all religions have their origin in the Hindu. I should have been more specific and referred simply to the continent.

Anyway, the present historical stretch is a pretty short run. I have no idea what they were doing in Atlantis and other cultures pre-date that and other cultures pre-date that and it goes back a really long way. There are some number of texts that diagram these things like the Urantia book don't drop it on your foot). Gurdjieff wrote a lot about periods in deep ancient time.

Not all the knowledge in the universe is worth a drop of divine love and a single sincere prayer or genuine extension to the divine has more meaning and more powerful results than the total value of the manifest world as far as currency and sundry go. That's just my perspective.

I could well be wrong here and there. it won't be the first time. My understanding of a lot of the examples you mention is different than your own.

Personally I could care less about any particular forms of evidence in relation to my personal experiences and all the rest of this is just conversation really. I only said what I said for counterpoints.

As far as what really was and where it was and when it was; that's unimportant to me though it might be important to people who measure these things.

I doubt any of us is in a position to provide defining proof for any of these things.

what I do know is that this has been the strangest day on record for these blogs and that's something I'm looking at because I'm getting some really unusual readings out of the atmosphere as well and... my whole area here is covered in mist which I haven't seen before. I'm in a very rural location which I picked for its privacy so that I could walk undisturbed among the invisibles.

I'm wondering about a lot of things at the moment. The genealogy of religious practices is not one of them (grin)

Anonymous said...

Michael Tsarion is a source for this, RJ?

The Hyksos link is super important and well hidden.

You dont have to be racist to share this info. The people you talk about are sometimes called the sons of serpent. They came from the north thus the "white" skin. Red hair has the same history too? They arent here today and so linking them to modern "white" men is wrong and Im thinkin you havent done this.
As a young man I got a SS tattoo and my back. I loved the Nazi story and felt akin to it. It took me ten years or more to really understand why. After learning about the poor and misleading story of so called Ayran thinkers I found myself looking into the Hindu and Celtic stories.
Im not racist and never have been, weird as it sounds, just in search of meaning to my nature?
Tara, or what ever you wish to name her (it) seems to be a doorway and kind hand for this struggle?

Anonymous said...

"Not all the knowledge in the universe is worth a drop of divine love and a single sincere prayer or genuine extension to the divine has more meaning and more powerful results than the total value of the manifest world as far as currency and sundry go. That's just my perspective."
And its a good one my friend!!!

Anonymous said...

Les --

I'm with you on Vedic History -- just read Cremo and Thompson on real dates of human appearance. My only point was why attack a white guy for following Hindu deities when they all may stem from same source/sources -- immaterial whether ultimately white/green/pink/alien etc.

Love is all that matters and I doubt the universal mind cares what color anybodies Gods/goddesses are/were/aren't.


Visible said...

I know RJ. I was cross-talking. It's a bad habit of mine.

As for son's of the serpent... yes indeed.

Anonymous said...

Hear! Here!

grazie, ciao

Anonymous said...

RJ, did you know Sadaputa Prabhu (Richard Thompson) passed on? (Sept. 2008)

A great mind and even greater heart and soul.
One of Srila Prabhupada's few scientist disciples.

His "Mysteries of the Sacred Universe" is wonderful.
As is "Mechanistic and Non-Mechanistic Science , or Vedic Cosmography and Astronomy."
He also was devoted to the TOVP (Temple of the Vedic Planetarium).

Thought you'd be interested, if not already aware of this.

I do recognize you possess a very active and impressive mind.

Visible said...

In that case he might want to read this-

In that case he might want to read this.

Anonymous said...

That's very nice of you, Les.

Anonymous said...

This, by Sadaputa Prabhu, is also extremely interesting.

Govardhan Hill Publishing--Alien Identities

Anonymous said...

Greetings All

Tsarion has done monumental work piecing a lot of this together -- Also the work of Christopher Knight of Hiram Key fame on reconstructing ancient math based on Alexander THOM'S DISCREDITED WORK, CREMO AND ALL THOMPSON'S WORK OF IMMENSE IMPORTANCE. ALSO PAUL LA VIOLETTE ON SCALAR PHYSICS and Vedic science, Fulcanelli's work on the symbolism of Gothic Cathedrals... Also a lot of digging together stuff on my own from Hungarian and Romanian websites -- Not to forget Ralph Ellis and his great work piecing together ancient Egyptian and Christian history, Andrew Collins and his work on Turkey, the Elohim, angelic lore and the Cygnus mystery, Manly P. Hall for his work on Rosicrucians and all mysteries in general and a special shout out to Peter Kingsley and his great tome "In the Dark Places of Wisdom" that resurrects the pre-Aristotilian wisdom traditions of Parmeneides and Pythagorus.

As to the Hyksos, Satan/Baal/Devil worshipping Pharisees and Jews who are not Jews no better place than the ancient prophets like Jeremiah for starters and then onto Jesus

My favorite joke about Satanic/Baal/Moloch worshippers -- Every time their dark Lord sends them their eagerly awaited for Evil Avenger of all goodness -- they eat him before he's out of diapers and then spend the next thousand years blaming each other
for not understanding the Talmud better.


Anonymous said...

RJ is right I have read some on the mummies in China with blonde hair and some of them are said to have six fingers also. There is white indian tribe in the Americas, mummies in South America, genes in South America as some of the tribes show blue eyed traits.

It just means they were absorbed into the present tribes as the caucasian gene is not dominant and disappears rather rapidly.

In China they have absorbed many races and keep on rocking.

There is an uneasiness on the forum today and I can certainly understand why looking around the world.

Hinduism stretches back through eons of time however from the Reg Veda and the Rishis, nobody knows who started it or how long ago it formed. It constantly changes with evolving consciousness of spiritual masters, but there is only one God and only one truth.

One thing is certain Hinduism and Buddhism are here because the east are the keepers of the flame and the west has failed or been way laid for numerous reasons.

Hinduism encompasses everything and every one, it is simply the search for truth so eloquently conveyed by Mahatma Ghandi when he emphasized that even the atheist is a Hindu for he too is searvhing for truth.

Unknown said...

I know, I know, I'm breaking my promise and chirping in again with my two cents worth. Great post Les! I know you are a tough guy and don't need any encouragement, but I wanted to give you some anyways. As far as poster(s) giving you trouble at Mirrors, I don't think anyone with any common sense expects you to be perfect. Personally I do not fall and drool over any teacher; I think that the teacher inside us is probably enough. I too go by trust but verify; I approach with caution. Mr. Visible your words strike me deep and they resonate within me, and when something like that happens I listen. After reading I sometimes feel hopeful and happy, and just as often I feel frustrated and depressed. This is because I know I have work to do. Personal evolution and all that stuff. Les you always seem to meet things head-on with courage and honesty(grace too)and I think I can sense that. Oh yeah and I appreciate the Hindu scriptures and links that Babaji and others post here, whether they elaborate them back to personal experience or not. As a spiritual sapling, my leaves enjoy soaking up the water. No offense to anyone, just my two cents worth. Peace to all. ///////// An open heart(and mind)and a little surveying of multiple spiritual/religious traditions shows you that all paths up the mountain lead to the same mountaintop, at least in my experience so far. Yes like Les said I'm confident when you get nearer the top this becomes more apparent to oneself. Hey Les, I wanted to thank you for the spiritual texts from the multiple traditions you have recommended in your blog over time! The Autobiography of a Yogi, Bhagavad-Gita, The Impersonal Life, The Way to the Kingdom, etc! Started reading these recently! Glad I got a computer and found this blog. You don't commonly find this stuff at your local library, on tv, or at the new-age candy-filled Barnes and Nobles. Just a bunch of tv psychics and personal success coaches who are going to SHOW YOU HOW TO MAKE MILLIONS! You've been Cliff Notes for Josh! A tuning fork man, thanks! I realize that excessive book knowledge is worthless, the only point is to practice these truths every day and LIVE them. I will say though that for someone on the front half of the spiritual journey these texts build desire, they keep the flame of inspiration alive!PS- I got The Urantia Book about two years ago. HAHAHA! That book makes my head spin! It's got an entire section in it that's devoted to Jesus Christ. Ancient civilization stuff is fun. I might have to see what ole' Gurdjieff's got to say. The Seth series of books by Jane Roberts was a good read.///////// Dammerung, with all due respect, your accusation seems a bit extreme. To the one on the recieving end of the accusation it will seem downright arrogant and outlandish. I disagree with your stance. Are we not all children of God? Is peace not where you find it? Surely we must follow our natural attractions and affinities. Heck, maybe even past lives have something to do with traditions we are drawn to.(I wonder if there will be a new "tradition" in the near new age?) From where I am at this point in time(and this could change)I can easily envision ingedients from different traditions going in the spiritual stew to fuel me up the mountain.///////// Speaking of synchronicities, I've been watching Stargate:atlantis for fun over the past few days. And then the poster at Mirrors uses the phrase "star gate" in his comment. What are the odds? Go ahead and laugh, I know. I would dismiss this stuff too except for this kind of stuff happens to me here ALL THE TIME. Further proof for me and my spiritual ponderings! pond owl

Visible said...


We play in some of the same sandboxes. Someone brought me a copy of "In the Dark Places of Wisdom" last year when they visited because I live in the area. I didn't get from it what you seem to have. I suppose it was because I got annoyed at the fact that every chapter he engaged in this teasing routine about these amazing things he was going to reveal and it just didn't happen for me; nonetheless I read it all. I suppose that his conclusions just weren't that surprising to me. I was happy to know that unusual things had taken place here long ago but I suppose you could say that about anywhere.

Manly Palmer Hall was a mainstay of mine for a long time. I have "The Secret Teachings of all Ages" and it is one of the most fascinating books ever. He was the greatest compiler of occult history and all things dealing with that area of inquiry that I have ever seen.

He suffered from elephantiasis which is an odd condition to have. He was a most unusual guy. He lived through most of the last century.

It is curious to me that for years my interests were centered in that area and now I scarcely think about it any more. I've got a stack of B.O.T.A. lessons that come up to my knee (not a short distance) and they sit there... heh heh.

We certainly live in interesting times.

Anonymous said...

Les --

Didn't know about Many P. Halls' elephantiasus -- weird, but would explain his obsessive scholarship -- Like many, the first esoteric work I ever read was his "Secret Teachings" -- At first I didn't believe any of it, like stuff on Shakespeare, Jesus... Then slowly further study revealed reality of all he had to say. I used to live near his headquarters in Los Feliz, great resource. Later, when I moved to Ojai, the Theosophical Society's library was at top of the hill...During the 90s I spent quite a bit of time there, had reading card, went to many great lectures... As to "Dark Places" I hear what you're saying about the tease factor. Mostly what really turned me on was getting exposed Paraminedes and pre-Socratic mystery school thinking.

I often think of you as the long-lost brother I never had. Same sandboxes, many of the same pharmacies (heh)


Unknown said...

It just occured to me that by us giving many appearances and manifestations to God that we are also implying that God's first and original form(if there is such a thing)is beyond understanding to the human mind?(or at least unknown?, maybe even formless?) I feel that knowing something like this is unnecessary to journey, but haven't we all pondered these things before? As far as appearances and manifestations go, I feel comfortable with the male/female aspect of worship. When you look around that is what is common in our physical lives. pond owl

Anonymous said...

Very interesting guys but then again this site is always interesting. I guess we can all remember our first esoteric reading. Someone handed me a copy of Cosmic Consciousness, then Kundalini Serpent long ago and I was hooked. It was on to Lobsong Rampa and Cayce.

The author of cosmic consciousness had an awakening just walking down the street. If only it were that easy for everyone.

Those who represent an ideal beyond the comprehension of the masses must face the persecution of the unthinking multitude who are without the divine idealism which inspires progress and those rational faculties which unerringly sift truth from falsehood."?-Manly Palmer Hall

Visible said...

There is a new Smoking Mirrors up-

the Hour of Judgment and the Hour of Need.

Anonymous said...

Hi Les just wanted to say i had the best laugh i've had in awhile tonight when i read dammerungs racial traitor comment i hang 100% with chinese at work and also in sitting standing and moving qiqong so i guess i too am a traitor.there is a deep and immense knowledge there and if you look into it enough it came over the hills from india still laughing see you

Anonymous said...

Many P. Halls' work helped me start down the road too. After a few years and cross ref Ive found many part of his "brotherhood" still mislead the lay reader? Not sure why but it seems most systems of pasting on old ideas likes to hide something under the rug?

Good piece from Tsarion

Anonymous said...

Also the Kennewick man.
Very interesting.
Was news for a while, mostly because of Native claims to what is a caucasian skeleton.
Then it just kinda disappeared like these things do.

Kennewick man: a 9300-year-old caucasian skeleton in north america?

This, like much of Cremo's work is very convincing because it entails more than the usual mental conjuring and philosophical sophistry.
When you have actual physical objects, which if dropped on your foot really hurts, now that's a convincing argument.
Like the Kennewick man, the Antikythera computer the Veda Slovena, etc.

How bout that Rama's brigde!

Dammerung said...

@Dublin Mick

>>One thing is certain Hinduism and Buddhism are here because the east are the keepers of the flame and the west has failed or been way laid for numerous reasons.

This is exactly the sort of thing I'm talking about! This is NOT TRUE! The West has always had a strong mystical tradition of its own, though it has indeed been persecuted many times and to this day remains mostly hidden. But this "Wisdom is from the East" nonsense is pernicious and a denial of the time and place in which you were born.

How can you read the Chymical Wedding of Christian Rosenkreutz and conclude the West has no legitimate spiritual heritage? How can you pick up a Tarot deck and not see the undercurrent of mysticism hiding beneath the pictures? What about the philosopher Berkeley, who independently developed the Consciousness-only philosophical viewpoint in the West? Or Carl Jung? Or Spinoza?

This is something I feel very strongly about. The West is not spiritually dead and it never was. There has always been manifestations of the divine, and the divine feminine, and spiritual monism - hiding in plain sight! Even the most mundane of mediums like television and video games have countless examples of Western spirituality. You just have to look.

Visible said...

The Chymical Wedding of Christian Rosenkreutz, right- that was on the New York Times best sellers list and also commonly used in many religious teachings.

Perhaps you would care to explain the operation of this particular ritual? I'm familiar with it precisely because of the Eastern mirror so I would be curious to hear what the process is.

You are aware that you are practicing spiritual fascism?

No one has told you to stop dabbling in these things even though all of your western religious teachers would brand you a heretic and pronounce you to be engaged in the work of the devil.

I can't quite get a handle on why you want to control the spiritual behavior of other people.

By the way, do you know what they found in Rosencruz's tomb when they opened it?

Dammerung said...


I find it hard to believe my criticisms are an effort to "control" anyone. Who am I holding to the sword or flame? I am saying, there is no need to look to foreign cultures for mysticism and enlightenment because it has always existed within our own culture as well! It is hidden everywhere at every time.

I find the most comfort in the spiritual accutrements of my own culture. I am a little suspicious of people who cleave to Hindu deities or Wicca. I have met several malicious conversos who use their newfound faith as a bludgeon against their own culture and those who still find value within it.

Once, late at night on my way back from the bathroom, I saw a Bodhisattva for 3/4 of a second. She was glowing translucent blue like Obi-Wan from Star Wars, and was wearing white vestments with sutras pinned to her chest. I have no idea whatsoever to make of this vision. Too much watching Saiyuki (anime adaptation of Journey to the West) perhaps combined with being half-asleep. Look, I'm not demanding anything of anyone. But I am suspicious, and the testing of spirits within and without must be continued.

Visible said...


"I have met several malicious conversos who use their newfound faith as a bludgeon against their own culture and those who still find value within it."

What has the above comment got to do with me or most anyone here?

It's near impossible to discuss this with you because your arguments and points are so irrational that one hardly knows what to say.

The whole world is interpermeated with every other part of the world. Many of the things in your house were made around the world. Every manifest thing from just about any country is available in every other country but... the religious and spiritual side has to be closed off because... well, because you don't like it.

I am certain I have spent far, far more time studying western mysticism than you. I assume this because it occupied most of my waking hours and constituted my reading materials for at least 20 years and a good portion of the rest of the years well. I studied for 30 years with a western mystery school devoted to Tarot, gematria and all manner of assorted sciences.

When I was engaged in the study of magic I would occasionally have western oriented visions but they amount to less than 1% of what I have encountered in the supernatural realms. All of the rest of it was Eastern. Whenever I took mushrooms or acid or anything similar it was always eastern. Therefore, my assumption is that is how it comes to me.

You are welcome to immerse yourself in the west. You are even welcome to complain about people who don't but... my suspicion is that what you are going on about here will have zero impact on me and pretty much everyone else because everyone here, generally thinks for themselves.

You still didn't answer me. What did they find in Christian Rosencruz's tomb?

Dammerung said...

>>Every manifest thing from just about any country is available in every other country but... the religious and spiritual side has to be closed off because... well, because you don't like it.

I see your point, about availability. Maybe the Internet and the widespread availability is itself a sign of lowering barriers and a kind of spiritual unification.

But are the gods and goddesses real, or not? Do they have personalities, or not? If they don't, then they don't really exist. If they do, then aren't they distinct from one another? Isn't it an insult to the individuality of Sophia to conflate her with Kwan Yin? In my experience, it is natural for the worship of Sophia to arise from my past and experiences. People who throw away the past have thrown away the foundation.

>>I am certain I have spent far, far more time studying western mysticism than you.

I am not competing with you.

>>my suspicion is that what you are going on about here will have zero impact on me and pretty much everyone else because everyone here, generally thinks for themselves.

Then that is for the best, isn't it? But who is Green Tara to me, or to any of the other average Americans? We have no foundation from which to derive meaning from her. We would lose almost all of it in translation. Maybe you've studied Sanskrit and the Upanishads and all of the rest of it and become the wisest India-ologist that ever was.

>>but they amount to less than 1% of what I have encountered in the supernatural realms. All of the rest of it was Eastern.

I have a friend who is a devout Satanist, and has talked about extensive congress with Satan. In the end, you just shrug and wish the best possible development to that person. We look at how we reflect off of others to try to figure out who we are.

Visible said...

I'll explain what you have mentioned as it appears in my consciousness; asking to be excused where my ignorance and lack of wisdom might not be sufficient to the task.

We are God sleeping. This life is God's dream. In this world are many languages, cultures and religions. the almighty is one being who, for various reasons, personifies himself as different aspects. The mother aspect and the father aspect are two expressions of a single being who divides for the purpose of creation. You could say that one is source and one is nature. You could say one is itself and the other the reflection.

In all the lands and tongues and religions, regardless of the different names given and the different appearances taken it is one being... East and West.... one being. Mary, Tara, Lakshmi, Etc... all the same feminine principle. it acts in myriad ways and so it has myriad persona.

Krishna, Christ, etc... one being. It acts in myriad ways so it has myriad persona and it appears a certain way for the benefit of being understood within the culture on the way to understanding it beyond that. It's like using lined paper in school. After awhile you don't need it any more.

The goal of life (the real goal of life) is self realization though it is sometimes called illumination and sometimes enlightenment and sometimes union with the divine. What it is is the revelation that you are God.

Of course you cannot become God until you possess the qualities of God and that is the purpose of life and all of its suffering. Some opt to know themselves as the devil... but it is all God. the Devil is the way wicked people see God. That is the God of self-interest. No matter what route you take you will run into God in some permutation or another.

Intensity and sincerity are keys to how quickly this is achieved. It can happen in this life. I have personally seen the results of intensity and sincerity just as I have seen the result of getting somewhere only to be thrown back into it because of unfinished business.

Now... there is a great deal more that can be said. This is simplistic but I warrant it is true as far as it goes.

I do not expect anyone to follow along on my path and I do not encourage anyone to. That has been clear here since here was here. When I discuss things I am often not even talking about what is named and exampled. Tara was incidental to what I was trying to communicate. Unfortunately it is often the case that the literal is what is grasped at and not the implied.

These essays are intended to function on both levels insofar as my meager talents can make that possible by the grace of what inspiration comes to me.

Om Tat Sat... You'll find that simple phrase given various meanings. That's how the mind operates.

All these Gods are projections of the self and we are that self. Ramana Maharshi probably explained this area best.

Well, I've got nothing more to say.

I sincerely did not mean to imply that I possessed some wealth of occult knowledge. I actually formed the statement wrong. I was basically trying to say, I've done my time with western teachings. What I meant to say is that whatever you might require of one in time spent at what you seem to believe is more native to me... I've given that time. I've earned to right to look eastward.

What did they find in Rosencruz's coffin?

Anonymous said...

@Dammerung and maybe Les (been trying not to asssume too much about ya)

The self and what ideas we force it into are key, as Les points to, but none of us have stop doing this yet, or it seems that way? I sure cant and have used my "occult knowledge" to at least understand why I cant just yet?
Les you're very kind to work this out today and I feel you get something healthy out of sharing, you to Dammerung!
Dammerung's asked very needed questions and deals in real problems for sure.
" Isn't it an insult to the individuality of Sophia to conflate her with Kwan Yin? In my experience, it is natural for the worship of Sophia to arise from my past and experiences. People who throw away the past have thrown away the foundation."
Dammerung look back at this? Sophia is part of yourself as you are oneness too? Moreover the feelings and ideas she creates in your mind, you are really creating? The two live together? You spell out what is "natural" for you and then pass jugdement on about others? Keep to the path you began with? A lot of times we look for outside events and simuluos to make up for things within? In not suggesting this is the case for ya but just saying? You have a mind to see the interworkings going on but stop at your own gates? I do this to, we all do, its a matter of being asleep at the wheel, like Les was saying. Keep pushing and asking those questions, dont let others get ya down! Too, dont look to other to work this out either?

Anonymous said...

Les --

Appropo of nothing, I was over at Manly P. Hall's library in Los FELIZ IN THE WEEKS AFTER HE DIED AND THERE WAS AN ELECTRIC HUSHED BUZZ that he had left several rare and secret documents in his safe, including a secret manuscript concerning the Rosicrucian Revelation.

I keep coming back and hanging around trying to get someone to open up but all I got was paranoia and dancing eyes.

I personally think they found mushrooms in the tomb and a time-transcribed note from John Allegro about Jesus. (heh-heh-ho)


Visible said...


Anonymous said...

Goes with saying but that doesnt stop my big mouth, "Taking Refuge in Green Tara" brings out the best in us!!!

Anonymous said...

Everyone and all the events of our lives are (t)here because we have drawn (created) them {to us}.

to paraphrase R.Bach, Illusions

Visible said...

There's a new Reflections in a Petri Dish up-

Self Interest and the Keys to the Kingdom.

Anonymous said...

Seems to me that...
Somewhere a spiritual quest got
waylaid by a policeman who wants credentials.
Authentication is not going to come from the past, rather from the place where you end up.
How you get there is yours to figure out, using whatever tools work for you.



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