Friday, March 12, 2010

Sailing into the Kingdom on a Magic Carpet of Sound

The beloved spiritual master, A.C, Bhaktivedanta wrote a book called “Easy Journey to other Planets”. Although I have never read the book, I know what it’s about because I came into the same reality by another route and that’s what I want to talk about tonight. That book, the title of that book, has been running through my head for weeks now. It keeps coming up. Sometimes I see the book cover in my mind when I close my eyes.

So many seriously strange things have happened to me in this life that the present, regular appearance of inexplicable phenomena is just more of the same. It’s strange now? It’s always been strange. The intensity and landscape vary but supernatural coffee is always percolating underneath the stage sets.

Before I went on my internet free journey I had begun doing the Hare Krishna-Hare Rama chant. It gradually increased its presence and replaced the Tara Chant which had previously replaced the Ganesha chant. It wasn’t long before I began to notice the particular power of the chant and also that it was much more personally in tune with me than the others.

All of my life I’ve been searching for the divine, even when I didn’t know what I was searching for. It’s led me for a period of time into just about every religious tapestry. One thing remained true through it all. The Eastern Traditions proved to be a more comfortable fit.

I wonder sometimes about Christians. I believe that Jesus was the son of God and I believe in what he had to say. As far as the miracles and the rising from the dead, that’s easy. I know God can accomplish anything. Rising from the dead is small potatoes in relation to what the divine is capable of. If we knew what we were capable of we would very quickly find ourselves deeply committed to seeking union with the divine.

I don’t see where any of what is said here conflicts with Jesus Christ. There’s an important thing that I think is generally overlooked and that is that the Bible does not contain everything that happened. People think the story is complete. It’s very much incomplete. Jesus went missing in the book for 17 years. It’s not a wrong assumption to believe that there’s a lot more to the story than what’s on paper.

Believing that the Bible contains everything is a limiting condition. It confines us to only what is written down and cuts off reflection upon the immeasurable possibilities of the divine. Do you catch my drift? There’s an unconscious assumption across the board that it all got written down. It didn’t.

This is why one will never realize the divine unless they go within where it all is. The body is a grave that conceals a spark of light. In our lives there is a period of time that we are given to connect with this light. This is the purpose of life. It has no other purpose. The divine experiences and realizes itself in the human state. If you don’t connect to the light during the time period; the length of your particular cassette, you get recycled. You might get recycled anyway but after a different fashion. “We shall not all die but we shall all be changed”.

I remember Christians coming up to me with a messianic gleam and asking me if I was saved. I would reply, “Yes” because it happens to be true. That was too easy for them and so they had to dissect the elements of my salvation. This inevitably led to my not being saved, according to them. There were some very specific agreements and understandings that had to take place. I was in agreement and understanding of all of them, according to the way I interpreted the meaning. This would lead inevitably to finding something, somewhere, somehow that indicated that I was not saved. It reminded me of lawyers looking for case histories that they could enter into evidence or present to the judge to show precedence, only in reverse; if that makes sense (grin).

You look at the word Christ and the word Krishna and it’s a no brainer. I can find parallels for nearly everything in Eastern thought that Western thought presents. During the night of my kundalini awakening, I remember looking at some western pen and ink pictures on the wall. They were of knights on horseback. As I looked at them they morphed back and forth from West to East and I was given to understand in no uncertain terms that they are the same, only differing in appearance. This is what everyone argues about... appearances.

The divine is invisible but we can see it in operation all around us should we choose to. We can see, convincingly, the total absence of God or the total presence of God depending on what we prefer to believe. In my own case, I have had so much direct experience that it’s beyond doubt, yet... I still experience doubt and separation every single day. I’m learning that these conditions automatically present themselves at regular intervals and our job is not to attach to them; not to think that the doubt and separation are our own. Everything that comes into our minds is not born of our being. There’s only one mind and these thoughts are fishes that swim in it. They travel all over the world and enter into every head. A master is subjected to this just as we are but it doesn’t affect.

Everything real and enduring is built out of love... Love is the key to success in anything and everything; loving what you do makes it come alive. Loving another makes both of you glow. The enemy of love is selfishness. We learn to be selfish. Life shows us the practicality of it and implies we would have much less without it.

Chanting, for me, is a way of weaving a magic carpet. Like a real carpet, it takes time and industry. Eventually you can ride that carpet to other worlds. I am not the only one to discover this. Other readers here know this. Love holds the particles of the carpet together and the sound current is very much like a highway ocean you sail on... vibrate over... swim along.

Personally I have no beef with anyone. Smoking Mirrors is an enigma to me but then I realize that it’s a kind of bait for this place. This place has, all along, gotten 10% of what Mirrors gets. Of course, Mirrors gets linked much, much more but still... that’s the way it goes. The general interest is much more upon the operation of the world than the operation of the divine, even though the world is just a small extension of it.

When one chants one can travel on a carpet of sound to the land of one’s focus. I remember two years ago... one afternoon during a meditation that lasted several hours that I found myself looking into a long and very large corridor that ended in a brilliant light. The light seemed to be an entity but I could not distinguish him. There were shapes and forms all around it and they grew brighter the closer they were to the light. I hovered there on the edge of seeing but never actually seeing. Still, it was an impressive period and a memorable experience.

As we dig deeper into the dirt and darkness of ourselves, we create a larger and larger opening through which the light can pass and also illuminate our progress. Some have to dig harder and deeper than others and those are the ones who are less inclined to dig; for some reason it works like that, the same way that more talents got added unto that particular servant in that particular parable.

I look at chanting and devotional practice as power tools and even when using real power tools, which I do most days, I imagine that they are also being applied to a similar end, regardless of the actual project I am engaged in. It seems fruitful to me to turn every activity into an act of celebrating and recognizing the presence of the divine. No doubt there are other modalities but these serve here for the moment.

In the tension and uncertainty of the times we should not forget that immense blessings of awareness are being conferred to those who put themselves in a position to receive them and there are other blessings too. Personally, I can't visualize doing anything else. Everything else is ashes to ashes and dust to dust.

Visible sings: God in Country by Les Visible♫ Every Day ♫
'Every Day' is track no. 11 of 11 on Visible's 2001 album 'God in Country'
Lyrics (pops up)

God in Country by Les Visible

The New Shangri-La.


Mother Cathy said...

Hare Kirshna Visible,

So nice to read that you are chanting the Maha Mantra! A. C. Bhaktivedanta Srila Prabhupada said that when we are chanting the Maha Manta, Lord Krishna is dancing on our tounge! This is because the name of Lord Krishna is the same as Lord Krishna Himself.
Our beloved Spiritual Master Srila Prabhupada also said to chant and be happy! I have been reading your blogs for sometime and today reading that you are chanting the Maha Manta is wonderful news! Welcome back! :-)

Mother Cathy

Anonymous said...

The Master plays the universe like his instrument and the music is for all who listen,The song can be interpreted in many a different way but it is a song of life being and love.
God Bless Less
all things work together for God and his will.
everything will be fine in the end.
Inshalla My Brother

McKenna Fan said...

Wow. I really liked this one.

Yeah. "Christians"

Too bad you haven`t had the chance to spend any time with people in TFI (the family international).

"Once you`re saved, you can`t get unsaved."

They`re not even remotely legalistic.

That contradicts "The Law of Love."

I guess I should say "we" and not "they."

That would just be the tip of the iceberg about why other "Christians" would not be happy with TFI.

It`s no exaggeration to say that TFI is a group marriage, at a certain status of membership, which I don`t have at the moment.

Like Heinlein`s "line marriage", in the Moon is a Harsh Mistress. Haven`t read a lot of other Heinlein, but I think that`s just the tip of his iceberg, too.

Anyway. That is a LOT of people to be married to each other.

They don`t think of it that way so much, but I wouldn`t be surprised if in the future that becomes more explicit.

The spouses (spice?) are really amazing.

Anonymous said...

Srila Prabhupada:

“They questioned, ‘What is your opinion of Lord Jesus Christ?’ and I said, ‘He preached God consciousness. He’s our guru .”
Tamal Krishna : “What is the difference between a pure Christian, or at least a sincere one, and a sincere devotee of Krishna?”

Prabhupada : “No difference…There is no difference between a pure Christian and a sincere devotee of Krishna.”
“…The process is very simple and easy because you can remain in your occupation, in whatever position you are. Simply you chant the holy name of God. Not only Hare Krishna. You can chant the holy name of God, Christ. Christ is also the same as Krishna. So do it. There is no expenditure, but the profit is very, very, great…”

Lawrence said...

quote: " I believe that Jesus was the son of God and I believe in what he had to say."

OK!!! As Proverbs says 6:2:"you are snared with the words of your mouth, you are taken with the words of your mouth." [or keyboard : ) ]

So the muslims also state "Jesus is a true prophet of God." Yet they deny Him. Jesus [His true name btw]said of Himself, in John 14:6 "Jesus said to him, I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life; no one comes to the Father but by Me." NO ONE.
In John 3, in a PRIVATE conversation between Jesus and Nicodemus, Jesus stated a human HAS TO BE born from above - a 2nd birth: "Jesus answered and said to him, Truly, truly, I say to you, Unless a man is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." He repeated this 3 x.


Re chantings: Mat 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

SEEK GOD!!! 2700 years ago Jeremiah the prophet [who reportedly settled in N. Ireland?] relayed to us: " Jer 29:11 For I know the purposes which I am purposing for you, says Jehovah; purposes of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope.
Jer 29:12 Then you shall call on Me, and you shall go and pray to Me, and I will listen to you.
Jer 29:13 And you shall seek Me and find Me, when you search for Me with all your heart." = criteria.

Lawrence Canada

Visible said...

So I was saying to myself, it is only a matter of time before some Luddite fundie comes along and presents an example of the exact scenarios I was talking about. Now where was I?

Ah... still saved, right.

Anonymous said...

Dear Les Visible

Good words and message.
Simple and to the point.
Complete with fundie example - on cue.
Thank you!
with love,

Visible said...

I bumped a couple of fundie comments because they're just like you would expect ans it gets tiresome. It's like having sugar amped children around and I don't see where Ritalin is an improvement.

The simple truth is that we of the saner faiths tolerate you but you are intolerant of us. What makes it even worse is that you don't know what you're talking about. I can assure you that Jesus is just as embarrassed for you by the things you say as I am.

Limited said...

Hey Lawrence, you are trying to limit the Unlimited mate. Give it up, it cant be done. Let it go and move on to bigger circles.

Visible said...

All the comments that came in last night did not go up (for whatever reason). I did bump a couple of fundie rants but it appears the universe got there ahead of me so... if your comment didn't go up then please submit it.

It should be taken for granted that I am in no way espousing that anyone do what I do. I mention these things as the occasional indication of where I am at at the moment. What works for me does not work for everyone and even what works for me doesn't always keep working.

Visible said...

Here's an except from some commentary on Paul Drockton's site
s site. I can't attest to the literal truth of any of it but the conclusions dovetail with what I've gleaned in my own way.

"Most of the money comes from drugs (the C.I.A.), sophisticated blackmail, money lending and currency trading.

Satanists of the highest order are behind a number of wealthy Conservative, New Right Christian Churches and organizations in America.

These are some of contemporary Satanism's best cash-flow enterprises (mostly indirectly) and allow mass indoctrination and networking.

The aim of the Alpha Lodge remains illiteracy rates in the western world of at least sixty-six percent by 2010 and the destruction of at least seventy percent of the globe's population by the year 2030.

All governments count on their sheeple to respond in typical infantile fashions, including unconsciously identifying with a more powerful force – even if it enslaves, brutalizes and humiliates them."

This explains the ties between noted television Preachers like Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell's with the CIA. Robertson's organization ran interference for convicted felon and CIA asset Jack Abramoff. (According to the writings of Daniel Hopsicker). This also explains why some leading Mormon politicians (separate from the Church they claim allegiance too), like Joseph and Christopher Cannon also served the needs of the conspiracy: through Jack Abramoff, David Safavian and Farmers Insurance/British American Tobacco.

Anonymous said...

Note friends[AND LOVERS] that the verse says VAIN repetitions. There is nothing NEW, it is all repetition, so get down off the high horse and live and love with Me. When I first took LSD in the mid sixties I was raptured, That is , made aware of subtle regions of isness. Long story short, something spoke to me from a cloud in word language I was unfamiliar with [but unafraid]. I took the drug and others but after a time came to understand that my experiences were one time events that pointed me where to look if there was to be more. My heart quivers when I consider how long I played Cupid with this communion called Life. But He[It] is patient[having all eternities] and though I strayed from My Tao and followed others from time to time it was fruitless. So now as I approach oldness though I am still a child I have precious blissed knowledge that I share and you know what!, only a few respond. Here I am. I walk as the divine among a world of profane nihilistic two legged rats blinded by plain old EGO. It's fine though. I am only with you for a while and you can't see me anyway unless thine I be single. My advice is just be still and know. Stillness and expectancy leads to divine movement. Thou art THAT.

Visible said...

Amen and well said.

gurnygob said...

Hi Les, good piece.
Some Christian inspired writings say that although Jesus was hidden from the world for whatever length of time it was that He led a normal life learning the scriptures and His foster father’s trade and getting to know His real Father in heaven. There are some who say that He preformed some hidden miracles. As He got older He would go missing for hours and then days as time went on and that these times were spent in lonely places meditating on God His Father as He prepared for his mission.
Of course these writings are not set in stone and that leaves the door open for other points of view. As a Christian it is my duty to believe the teachings of the church in these matters and that’s where I tend to stay. I have often wondered about other religions and where their respective teaching came into being. The problem for me is in the sayings of Jesus about himself. If I say I believe in Jesus as the Son of God then it means, at least for me, that there is no room for other gods or other ways to get to Him except through Jesus. What if I were not a Christian???? Well I have thought about this too and I recall Jesus saying “John 14:6
Jesus saith to him: I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No man cometh to the Father, but by me.” If these words are true then what is one to do? Does that mean that all others who do not proclaim Jesus as the only way to the Father are all going to hell? I don’t have the answers. You said, “I believe that Jesus was the son of God and I believe in what he had to say.” If what you say is true then you are a Christian. Can one be a Christian and still follow eastern teachings and mini gods and so on? Should you not be teaching others to follow Jesus as the only way to God and salvation?
I am not trying to undermine what you are saying, or maybe I am. You know me; I get confused some times wondering how it’s all supposed to fit together. Of course my proclaiming to be a Christian means nothing unless I truly follow Jesus and if truth be told I am not, at least not in my eyes. I believe I could always be doing more but I am lazy and complacent in my relationship with Him. Please, say a wee prayer for me that that changes. Thanks for your guidance and words.
God bless

abe said...

Blessings all:
Today is the first day of the Long Beach Pow Wow, going from 10 am-11pm, US Pacific time. Most people don't know that this CSULB campus is built on land holy to Chumash/Mission Indians and is where God taught the original Californians the ways of love and survival. Please join thousands of us in Praying for, Chanting towards, and manifesting justice for the indigenous peoples of the world all day today and tomorrow. There is no community I trust more with this message than Visible's clan. Hoka hey brothers and sisters!

Scissortale said...

Hey Les, another good bit of writing, which is why I've followed your blog from it's inception. A couple of months back, I sent my first comment but hesitated following it up with more information, stating that it was "your" blog. You said that I was free to say what I liked, as the blog was here for all of us to learn. With this in mind, I think you and your readers would be well served by you posting the complete comments, even when they are in disagreement with your personal beliefs. I realize there are comments that are unworthy of publication, but to delete valid argument is censorship akin to what we have been fighting all along.

Visible said...

That is generally true and why I post 99.9% of what comes in at all of the blogs including things I don't like and which also endanger the blogs and me.

However... and it's a big however. When a tag team of propagandist show up that are saying exactly the same things (which can't be a coincidence) and they repeatedly do it and never variate then I'll use my judgment in that regard. I have the benefit of seeing what it is and you are speculating about what may or may not be contained therein. I also don't know who you or anyone else is and can often not tell from where the agenda is coming and how many prongs it has.

I'm not suggesting anything about you or anyone else. What I am saying is that I don't know and so must be watchful. I'm not interested in hearing from people whose hope is that I get thrown into hellfire and I know from previous experience and a great many comments from readers that they don't like seeing it here either. I routinely do post the fundie parrot line but sometimes it can cease to be entertaining when the exact same thing is said again and again and again. In the interest of being fair it is never a good idea to let the long term majority suffer just so undisciplined school children can run through the halls and throw shit at people.

I understand how some might think that these redundant fundie upchucks are every bit as valid as any of the great religious texts in history and we all have sit around all mannered and nice and endure it for whatever the reasons might be but long time experience here has shown me that when I grant too much of a soapbox to this particular theme that it finally gets to the point where people are yelling at me to stop it and invariably I have to.

Anonymous said...

Thanks for reminding me of the purpose of life.

Anonymous said...

"I believe that Jesus was the son of God and I believe in what he had to say"

That's a little confusing Les. Are you saying there are two Gods. We are all sons or daughters of God just like Jesus was. I believe you said as much in a previous post where you said that nowhere in the bible did Jesus claim to be divine. Jesus received his divinity at the Council of Nicene.

Damn I hope the fundies won't throw us both in the fires of hell.


Visible said...

It shouldn't be confusing. What Jesus said was true. What Buddha said was true and the same goes for all the rest of them. They are all personifications of ONE deity who appears in different garments with 'seeming different teachings for the benefit of 'different' times and cultures. It's about to happen again.

Joe Bloggs said...

Although it may seem mundane and material
Every day is a new miracle
It's divine and spirit y'all

"Spare the rock and spoil the kidz"

is the only quote I rem from the bibel - that's wise Hum always playink Iron Madeon, Mortomorph, Cliff Rich and so on for the bratz, gottdrumit; dei knead an edyahcuhsion of some sorts, for criesache, yæh?

Anonymous said...

Moving on.

Billy G.

Visible said...

There's a new Reflections in a Petri Dish up-

Riding on the Rollercoaster of Cosmic Change.

Anonymous said...

I posted this last night, but it didn't show up...

Les and everyone, you may like to check out the lastest blog entry over at Church of the Churchless.

It's titled "Life Without God is More Meaningful"

Lawrence said...

Les thanks for allowing my post. I assure you I am no Pat Robertson/Jerry Falwell/Billy Graham/NWO neocon what have you. I am first: a musician and that artistic gift sets me apart. What I am is someone who did some time for dealing and in the slammer I found Jesus. I was into Carlos Casteneda prior to [do not recommend that] and I discovered the bible is either crap ... or it is true. Bless you and thanks again for posting me - most places don't. lawrence the psalmist guitarist lol

Scissortale said...

recouI understand the harassment factor, as a few years back I was a columnist for a fairly popular web site and eventually grew so tired of enduring the ravings of one particular person that I finally struck a match and walked away. In that case, it was not a visitor but another columnist for the same site. Although she was billed as an environmental writer, she was a proud atheist who constantly wrote anti-Christ articles, while defending the Masons as "little old men who were just practicing their religion". Her bias was obvious and she left no room for discussion or understanding. That web site still exists, though pretty much ignored since my passing [and the clearing of the smoke].

If I may act as devil's advocate [excuse the pun] for a moment, there is always going to be disagreement and those who think their belief is the only belief. I would only hope that people would make their point politely, so that everyone might gain some understanding.

And I would never condemn you to Hell, Les. That's not in my job description.

Unknown said...

God’s law is in three words,
“I am All;”’ and this perfect law is ever present to rebuke any claim of another law.”

Scissortale said...

True Christians cannot be compared to the Pat Robertsons and Jerry Falwells of the world. In fact, many if not most of todays "Christian" churches are doing their best to NOT teach their congregation the true faith. Having said that, much of what you are saying certainly conflicts with the written word.

I understand the emotions of those who are attacking you on this issue, I just think we would all be better served if everyone would lay their cards on the table and politely discuss their beliefs. Maybe we could all learn something.

Anonymous said...

Gokulananda Prabhu: One devotee was telling Srila Prabhupada that many devotees, especially the big devotees, were coming where Prabhupada was for the Ratha-yatra. “Big devotees?” Srila Prabhupada replied, with surprise, “We are trying to become small devotees.”

Anonymous said...

Hi Les,
I feel as if you are tired of talking of political things that only satisfy the Nafs in us (Ego, passion, desire, lust) which if uncontrolled would lead us down to hell. Therefore once in a while you would want to bring out the real feeling of what you felt all these while. The more permanent and satisfying feeling of connecting with The Divine. Knowing that you are an artist and artists are known to be very sensitive people, you have more tendency to feel deeper than others.

There is a Sufi Proverb that says -"I searched for God and found only myself. I searched for myself and found only God". That is what you are trying to do. Finding The Divine within yourself.
Les I am very interested in Sufism myself and you seeing the light in your meditation is so much similar with the experiences of the Sufis who see and felt the light in their initial journey to find The Divine.
Among the Sufis, the hadis Qudsi that says - The First Creation that God created was The Light, because without the Light, everything is dark.

I would like to end this with a quote from Yazid Bistami - The Thing we tell of can never be found by seeking, yet only seekers find it."
Salam - Peace.
Nur Ilahi

Anonymous said...

"Christ" is the English form of the word "khristos" in Greek (= the anointed one ). The Greek khristos is a translation of the Hebrew word "mashiyach" (=the anointed one) which is written in English as "Messiah". It was a descriptive term, used for many people, not used as a name, hence Peter says, "You are the Christ."

The New Testament was written in koine Greek, it being the lingua franca in the area after Alexander the Great defeated the Persian emperor Darius @ 332 BC, and took the region. St Matthew's gospel might have been written originally in Hebrew as early Christian writers said, and then translated into Greek. If so, there's no trace of it in Hebrew. All the books of the NT were written after Jesus died.
The Old Testament was written in Hebrew.

"Krishna" is from the (Indo-European language) Sanskrit "krshnah" (= the black/dark one) from Proto-Indo European (recontructed root) *kers-no (kers=dark) which is cognate with the (Indo-European language) Czech "cerny" ; (Indo-European lang ) Old Prussian "krisnas" (= black); (Indo-European lang) Serbo-Croatian "crn"; (Indo-European lang) Russian "coron" all meaning "black".

The divinity of Jesus became a fixed part of Christian dogma only after the Council of Nicaea in 325 AD. Beliefs about him were fluid in the early centuries. The four Gospels have different emphases, some being meant for those who followed Judaism, and some for gentiles who would not know the Tanak - the Torah and other books - of what came to be called the Old Testament later.

Many of the narratives in the Old Testament are re-tellings of older Sumerian legends. Sumerian is not a Semitic language, so these older narratives which are borrowed and retold in the Semitic Old Testament, are from a different, older culture and civilization altogether.

(Arabic, Aramaic, Akkadian, Assyrian, Babylonian, Phoenician, Amharic (Ethiopic), and Hebrew are some dead and current Semitic languages.) Jesus spoke Aramaic.

There is some evidence that Jesus might have travelled up to Ladakh, in the northern part of India during his "lost" years. Justice William O Douglas was shown, when he visited a Buddhist monastery there, some text which referred to an "Ïssa" from western Asia, who had come there in the first century AD. (Buddhist teachings - from the fifth century BC on - were known in Palestine before the time of Jesus, as they also were to Alexander's entourage.)

Christian fundamentalists seem to hold the position, implicitly, that there is more than one God - that there is one True God whom they worship and a bunch of False Gods whom other religions worship. They don't bother to explain how the False Gods came to exist, or whether they are purely imaginary, in which case they cannot possibly exist. In effect, Christian fundamentalists seem to demonstrate a strange form of polytheism, with uncertain division of functions among the True God and False Gods.

m_astera said...

The crux of the matter (pun intended) seems to be "None come to the Father but by me". As one who was indoctrinated from a young age in the shallowest sort of fundamentalist "christian" mindfuck, that one phrase led to many years of thought. What does it mean?

I say the following not with any hope of reaching those who have been brain damaged by the evil of christian fundamentalism. Yes, any of you still reading, something evil and very deliberate has been done inside your head, such a bizarre twisted thing has been done to you that you wish eternal suffering upon those who fail to follow your program.

For those who are sane and even slightly awake, your embrace of eternal damnation, pain, and torture shows the simple wrongness of the lie that has been braided into what should be the highest calling and deepest understanding.

Simply: There is one Creator, One Being. If the path, the goal, is to come closer to that Divine, as was the goal and path of Jesus, then one will end up in the same place no matter from where one starts or what route they take. The place that Jesus came to is the place all will come to.

Those who condone or accept torture and eternal damnation of anyone not agreeing with the lies they have been tricked through fear and ignorance to accept, are nowhere near that goal, nor are they presently headed in its direction.

One will not "come by" Jesus in that direction.

Anonymous said...

Srila Prabhupada:

“So where do you find the difference? If Lord Jesus Christ says, ‘Through me,’ that means he’s the representative of God. So either through the representative of God or God…representative. Similarly, God has to be approached through God or through His representative. The same thing. Only the difference may be of understanding. Because Lord Jesus Christ spoke to a society that was not very much advanced. You can understand that such a great personality, God conscious person, was crucified. Just…

“Had they been intelligent, they would not have crucified such a great personality like Jesus Christ. So we have to understand what is the condition of the society…”

—lecture, 1968

Anonymous said...

The Proto-Indo-Europeans were the speakers of the Proto-Indo-European language (PIE), an unattested but now reconstructed prehistoric language.

"Unattested?" "Reconstructed?"

I wonder how the Indus script might effect any future "reconstruction(s)" of this PIE theory?

It is still a theory, is it not?

Hence the asterisks..

What will they come up with next?
Some lame idea that the Vedic people weren't the original "Aryans?"

Anonymous said...

All proto-languages are reconstructions from their descendants, and a proto lexical item is always shown with a preceding * to show that it is not from a text (attested). There is, by definition, no attested proto-language. Eg. all the Romance languages (Italian, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Romanian, Romansh etc ) are descended from Latin, and most of the languages of north India are descended from Sanskrit, but Latin and Sanskrit are attested, so they're called Parent languages, not Proto languages.

But at one time, Sanskrit and Iranian were not separate languages, but a single language - Proto-Indo-Iranian (with dialectal variations, as with all languages), spoken by a collection of peoples, some of whom remained in Persia, their language (Old Iranian) given the name Avestan (after the Avesta, the sacred book of the Zoroastrians - modern Parsis in India). Avestan is the parent of modern Iranian Farsi today). And other groups moved on to the Indus valley, (not earlier than 1700 BC) their language becoming Sanskrit-Pali.

"Aryan" is cognate with "Iran", "Arya", cognate with "Eire". Archaeological findings in west central Asia mark the route the Indo-Iranians, and later, Indo-Aryans followed as they migrated southwards. At one point, in the historical period, Indo-Aryan in India was the easternmost location, and Celtic in Ireland, the westernmost location of the Indo-European family. No linguist - lame or otherwise - states that the Vedic peoples, peoples of the Vedas (the holy books of the Aryans, as the Avesta was the holy book of the Zoroastrians), are other than the Sanskrit-speaking Indo-Aryan branch of the Indo-European family.
Articles in Wikipedia are not always correct; they are often incorrect, depending on the axes the contributors want to grind.

The Indus valley script, according to most serious linguists (not statisticians and their like), was most probably Dravidian. Based on language typology, it cannot be Indo-European, though it could theoretically be Sumerian. (Indo-European is prefixing, the Indus script is suffixing.) This probability is strengthened by the fact that (1) the Rg Veda - the oldest of the Vedas - has Dravidian words as well as Munda (Mundari, spoken in eastern north India belongs to the Mon-Khmer family of languages to which Cambodian belongs) words in it, (2) that Sanskrit, an IE language, became progressively Dravidianised and (3) also by the fact that artefacts with inscriptions, some similar to, and some identical with, the Indus script have been found far south in the state of Tamil Nadu, which is Dravidian-speaking. There is a sudden overlay of pottery above neolithic strata in archaeological findings in peninsular India, which indicates a movement into that region of a non-neolithic peoples making that pottery.

The linguistic issue in India has been politicised by those who claim that the Indo-European-speaking Indo-Aryans were native to India, and that IE spread to Europe from India, which is not linguistically or historically possible. Hittite - an IE language extinct by the 13C BC, but attested as early as the 20C BC in Assyrian texts - was spoken in what's now Turkey. Indo-European Sanskrit-speakers moved into India, just as the Greek-speakers moved into Greece, the Germanic-speakers into Germany, Scandinavia, and Britain, and the Celtic-speakers into Ireland.

The only outlandish assertions are those made by people who do not know the findings in comparative or historical linguistics, population genetics, archaeology, etc, who cannot see the similarities between Greek, Latin, Old Church Slavonic, and Sanskrit, and don’t want to know.

Anonymous said...
University of Massachusetts Dartmouth, Center for Indic Studies

July 3, 2006

Press Release

Scientists Collide with Linguists to Assert Indigenous origin of Indian Civilization

Comprehensive population genetics data along with archeological and astronomical evidence presented at June 23-25, 2006 conference in Dartmouth, MA, overwhelmingly concluded that Indian civilization and its human population is indigenous.

In fact, the original people and culture within the Indian Subcontinent may even be a likely pool for the genetic, linguistic, and cultural origin of the most rest of the world, particularly Europe and Asia.

Leading evidences come from population genetics, which were presented by two leading researchers in the field, Dr. V. K. Kashyap, National Institute of Biologicals, India, and Dr. Peter Underhill of Stanford University in California. Their results generally contradict the notion Aryan invasion/migration theory for the origin of Indian civilization.

Anonymous said...


you chose to disallow my comment, on no other basis then it was the truth! and it struck a cord in you that you could not deny, so because you are of your father lucifer and resist the truth at all costs. I have absolutly no respect for you any more, and will no longer be visiting your site.

I gave you a chance and you failed misserably, you are nothing but a new age luciferian lost in confussion & chaos!


Visible said...

John, it is typical of brainwashed fundamentalists like you to accuse and sentence to hell anyone and everyone who does not abide by your witchburner mentality. Ten comments went missing the other day and I commented on it already asking people to resubmit them. I don't censor comments except rarely.

A sane and rational person would have inquired first but you are filled with resentments and hate and that's you right out of the starting blocks. You've shown that just now.

I could care less if you respect me or whatever else it may be that you are feeling. I know nothing about you except that you are an intolerant bible thumper and that you judge everyone but yourself

Feel free to come or go. It doesn't matter to me. I doubt this place will be diminished by the absence of you ongoing uninformed statements and sweeping judgments of everyone who doesn't toe the party line.

Visible said...

Here's a little note to everyone who feels I could well handle things like this differently. Yes I could but bending out of shape in all directions to accommodate people of draconian bent is not my style. I can put on any number of persona's and paint myself a certain way; acting all wise and wonderful but it wouldn't be honest. People like John are of a type and they would as soon kill you as look at you. if you don't agree to the parameters of their narrow universe then watch out. These are the people who all through history have murdered and imprisoned everyone who didn't agree with them. They're no different that the neo-cons and they are on the same side.

It's true that some of them are just plain ignorant but that doesn't make them any less dangerous. These people are extremely unhappy and they think you and I are the reason. I don't doubt that the one thing most of them are looking forward to is looking over the rim of Heaven to the suffering below with a big smiles of satisfaction on their faces. You can't reason with them and you can't get anything from them except "Obey or die". Therefore I don't choose to give too much thought or time to how plainly I might speak to them.

People who get all egalitarian don't have to manage these sites and hear what I hear. Everyone can do it better until they find themselves in the position of having to do it and then it all changes.

I'm fair and I'm agreeable. I know this. If I have to respond a certain way or take certain action there's a good reason.

Anonymous said...

The Creator of the whole universe is Just. He sent prophets experts in their field - known and unknown to people as a guide towards Him. Basically, I believe the God that we all human beings who believe in a God - worship the same one God. There could not be one God for the Hindus, one God for the Christians and one more for the Muslims. Intelectually, that is not to be.

We breathe the same air, we drink from the same water, we stand on the same earth, there could only be One Source of all these necessities of life.

The difference is while some worship God the Creator directly, some others worship Him thru a Creation of The Creator. While some have the benefits of a Scripture who explains God very clearly, some others are unfortunate as to get only a gist of what He is or worse still, a wrong concept of The Almighty.

Life is a journey. We came from Him and to Him we will return.

Nur Ilahi

Copernicus Kidd said...

Les! Don't sweat the haters! You are a beautiful inspired and saint like spirit soul. Your magic words echo around the universe like a righteous trumpeting clarion call to the furious braves of all time. May your chariot be driven by the host of the thousand galaxies. You are protected. Take HEART Arjuna, and fulfill your duty. Hare Krsna Hare Bol! HARE HARE HARE!

Anonymous said...

I dont think of myself as being religious but I do find 'a course in miracles (ACIM)' to be very interesting read when it comes to investigating what the fabled Jesus was really demonstrating with his appearance here.

1st time poster but always enjoy reading the opinions...Thanks Les!

Anonymous said...

Hi les, as always your comments are spot on. I too have for the last 4 years been searching for the divine, i too have search through many religions,i always used to chant the hare krishna manta. I am a pisces, whether that has any bearing or not, and i found krishna through george harrison. iam also from liverpool, england, again prob no relevance. What iam drawn to most of all is Gnosticism. It doesnt matter how u arrive there, the divine is accessible to us all, its whether we bother to look, for me it is the reason why iam here, to find my way home. love kel xxx

Anonymous said...

Big Huggs and Kisses Les!!!
In many ways have you weaved a magic carpet!!! Just letting it out as you have is pure, thanks man! Its growing my friend, larger the circle moves over all of us, by your will and love!!!

The Fool

Anonymous said...

John 25
25And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.


Kevenj said...

"I understand how some might think that these redundant fundie upchucks are every bit as valid.."


Quick! Brother John, go get brother Lawrence, a KJV and I'll get the bondfire going....

And don't forget to invite the girls in the hallelujah chorus.
Tell them to bring some eats.

ravenise said...

As you will, take from this with you what you wish and discard the rest.

I usually don't define afterlife in a spiritual matter. In my opinion, the best evidence for an 'afterlife' is that when we die, other life forms live on... the planets still rotate, and when we die our bodies fuel the lives of other creatures and so dimensions of consciousness. All life and matter is in constant dance moving toward increasing complexity and equilibrium right down to the fundamental nature of matter and light itself.

Matter begets life.

We are the fingertips of evolution that stems from the tree of life which springs up and exists everywhere it possibly can and always will.

Our brains both tile over and create infinite labyrinths of ideas and possibilities... making the experience of being alive sort of an end to itself, ending "as black as holes within a memory" or "like the God who hung stars like lamps in the night." Which ever you prefer...

When it comes to defining God, well... I don't know... but I find that Joseph Campbell's ideas resonate humbly within me.

"God is a thought, God is a name, God is an idea, but its reference is to something that transcends all thinking. The ultimate mystery of being is beyond all categories of thought. The best things can’t be told because they transcend thought. The second best are misunderstood because those are the thoughts that are supposed to refer to what can’t be thought about. The third best are what we talk about and a myth is that field of reference, metaphors referring to what is absolutely transcendent. What can’t be known, or can’t be named, except in our own feeble attempt to cloth it in language. And the ultimate word in our language for that which is transcendent is 'God.'"

In my humble opinion, if I was asked to define 'God' I would say that God is everything everyone has ever thought or feeling known and everything everyone hasn't thought, felt, or known... I would say that God is everything that has ever existed and ever will in this universe and beyond.

We find comfort and fellowship in defining things and being led in those definitions... while we filter and discard others, and infinite possibilities. I appreciate some peoples attempts to define above others. If every spiritual person considered and emulated Dog Poets ideals, the world would be a far, far better place.

Les, check out this video clip I mixed together a few years back:

No one is in control... the Rockefellers and Rothchilds of the day bleed and die just like everyone else. They will never stop the sun from going supernova. They are merely ants in a nest of unfathomable trillions upon trillions of others in the universe who have, or had power and influence and compassion incomprehensible to these greedy bastards.

Just another grain of sand in the universe of ideas:) Take care and much love...

Visible said...

New Smoking Mirrors up-

Crime Families, Buggery and Boat Riding Dreams.

Anonymous said...

Les do allow some "Luddite" intervention once in while as a source of levity. I find it entertaining at times, especially the way you handle them. I had some adventists at the door the other day. I coughed and told them I would advise getting out as fast as possible, you don't want this virus. They turned on their heels. It saves time. It is even quicker than explaining you are a Druid and worship stones.

You are correct Les there is nothing scarier than a thumper talking about Armageddon with an autistic look in their eye.

When will Dartmouth do a study validating the harmful effects of fluoride in the water?

Wow if John actually had a following the dog poet would be burned at the stake for sorcery!

Gurney we always come back to the crossroad don't we? You are continually stuck on what Jesus said but there is much debate on what Jesus said. You are repeating what emporer Constantine said he said at the council of Nicea. You do not see the difference here.

I always wonder if you believe all this or you are simply pulling our leg. I still cling to the latter at the present. The great question of the day is how can you read many of the lucid literary pieces here for so long and still cling to such childish ideas?

It is one of life's great mysteries.

Visible said...

There is a new Reflections in a Petri Dish up-

It's Time to Throw the Golems out with the Bathwater.

Scarlett said...

Perhaps I simply interpret things as I wish them to be, but I have always taken the idea that Jesus said that no one comes to the Father except through him to mean that no one gets there who doesn't follow the path he was trying to teach, which was a pretty radical one for the times. Jesus always preached that you didn't need an intermediary between you and God. You weren't supposed to pray in public -- but privately. He was adamantly opposed to the money changers and the hierarchy of the temple who he felt were trying to position themselves above others and actually kept people from God with their false teachings. I always took this to mean that Jesus was saying to forget what they had been taught -- he was here to set the record straight.

My problem with so many fellow Christians is that they focus on the BELIEF in Christ (rather than actually living as Christ commanded) as the only qualification for being "saved". You aren't saved by good works but by the grace of God which only is bestowed on those who profess to believe in Christ. Many Christians have been duped by this modern interpretation because it makes Christianity easy -- which it never was nor could ever be if practiced as Christ preached. We don't like hard work, so it is easy to be seduced by the idea that simply adding "In Jesus' name we pray" to the end of every prayer is all it takes.

Plus, I find it hard to believe that God would create one faith yet many different cultures. Those born into Christian majority cultures would have a leg up so to speak because it requires little to no sacrifice to practice a faith that is common or openly tolerated. If you are born into a country where believing in Christ could get you killed, you have to demonstrate an enormous amount of faith that other Christians are never called to demonstrate. Hardly seems fair or likely, imo.

If God had set up the universe that way -- wouldn't there be but one kind of food that tasted good or one song that sounded sweet? If we are given free will (as I believe), why would you stack the deck against whole populations from the start? I simply do NOT believe that God has chosen any group as His favorite.

Anonymous said...

More on Rome Gurney. Peasant has a pretty thorough breakdown.



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