Wednesday, November 16, 2011

The Highest Position is to be a Tool.

Dog Poet Transmitting.......

May your noses always be cold and wet.

A lot of people want to be proactive, engaged, involved, doing good works, somehow, someway, somewhere. People want to make a difference, act out in the world and have an effect on the conditions that we find ourselves in and that many another seems completely lost in, the key thought there is to 'find ourselves'. Maybe that should be the focus, period; finding ourselves. Presently, all of us are operating with some version of what we imagine we are and what composes us. This is the OS and avatar we bring to the particular reality world that we consider to be real. This is whatever it is, at whatever level it is at, that affects and is affected by the bump and grind of the Grand Guignol, strip tease show. We're in the audience. We're serving drinks. We're working in the kitchen or doing security at the front door. We're working on the performers in the back. We play in the band. We are the MC or we're doing the dance on the stage or the mirrored tables and runways where you can see the private parts or simply observe them in their mirror image if you are shy. Don't lose the mystery of it all though because that is the main enjoyment feature of the whole shebang. Once the mystery is gone you'd better be looking elsewhere and soon will in any case. That begs the question; “How much mystery is there in a strip tease parlor”?

A great scientist from former times said, “Fortune favors the prepared mind”. Some of us learned what we think we know at schools of one sort or another, some of us learned it as 'on the job training' and some of us did both. Some of us didn't learn anything in school but got papers to indicate that we did and then we went on to become experts in the field because those are the only experts being entertained these days in positions of power and influence. It begs the question of, “Is that the kind of expert you want to be”? There's no shortage of candidates so you won't be missed if you demur.

What this all comes down to is that if you want to change the world, you have to change yourself. The world then changes automatically. Here's an example that anyone who meditates will be aware of. Meditation, prior to setting out on your day, once you have progressed to a particular groove so that you would notice, has a pretty amazing tendency to elevate you above the roll and tumble of ordinary engagement. Let's say that, for whatever reason, you miss your meditation on a given day, all of a sudden you notice that conditions have reverted to something less than what you have become used to. Things don't go as well as they had been going. Continue to miss your meditations and your mindset integrates at a certain level and stays there, until trauma or some unpleasant condition intrudes and shakes up your long or short running circumstance.

Meditation and other spiritual practice, alters your position and perception in respect of the world. Things improve and improve, depending upon how authentic and effective your practices are. You don't always notice the improvements. They are gradual. I remember driving up the Haleakala Highway on Maui one day. It's a very gradual incline when you are running from the turnout off on Hana Highway to Pukalani. After even a few miles, if you pull off of the highway by the side of the road and get out of the car, as I did, you find yourself amazed at how high up you are. It doesn't seem possible that it could happen. That is how meditation and companion spiritual practices work.

Think of your spiritual practices as being a kind of generator where the machinery transforms according to the continued use of it. The generator, the storage battery and other features morph in the process of application. The generator becomes more and more powerful. The regular battery turns into a marine battery. The other components upgrade automatically too. Soon there are two marine batteries because, components reproduce as well, if the need is there. This is how an ordinary human being one day becomes a star in the heavens and do not doubt that this occurs, given that it does occur over a very long time.

Here's an example of that; Lord Surya is the regent of The Sun. That is the name of The Sun King for perpetuity but various entities come and go under that name sake. Presently, the personage acting as Lord Surya is Vivasvan. He continues as the sun regent for around four hundred million years and then is replaced by the next person who has earned that position. You might think that is a long time. It's not. That's all relative. Consider The Amitabha Buddha who is known for having taken a vow to eschew enlightenment until every other sentient being has gone through the door before him. He engaged in many, many kalpas of austerity and varieties of effort to come to that place. There's more to the tale of The Amitabha but you can look that up on your own, if it interests you.

I'm trying to give you a feel for the level of commitment necessary to get certain places, which amount to no more than greater service. You can get to no place of greater service, nor can you be of any great service until you transform who you are. Can you accomplish this on your own? No. You have to have a teacher, a master, a guru, however your label that facility which makes this possible. You already have one who is, in most cases, unknown and invisible to you. You have to cry out within and do what you can on your own to attract such a one.

I was talking with someone on the phone last night about these things and I mentioned that angels circumnavigate the globe at all times; on the lookout for all sorts of things. If your eyes were unveiled you could see these angels. Imagery of this sort has been expressed in the art of Gustave Dore and others. When the love and aspiration in the heart of any seeker reaches a certain point it sends out a light that can be seen by these angels, or devas and they report back The One and they also trigger a sympathetic, magnetic vibration between the seeker and those who are prepared to help this seeker according to the special needs of that specific seeker. It is all perfectly organized and operated by representatives of a divine hierarchy. If you can't see it, it doesn't mean it isn't there. It is. I have personal proof of this, well beyond the point of personal doubt. In the end it is only ourselves that we need to convince (keep that in mind). Others are convinced on their own, simply by your example if you are authentic. Authenticity is born of integrity and integrity is born out of endurance and restraint. This may not be comprehensive but it will do.

Look at the greatest among us who ever walked here. They are all about service and sacrifice. Is this not so? Look at the life of Jesus Christ, The Buddha, Krishna and there are many lesser lights who have performed in similar fashion. Does this not mean that service and sacrifice are the highest order of divine and personal expression? Yes it does. What motivates these? Love does and, as you may have heard, God is Love. That is true. The highest expression of truth is Love, whereas, the highest expression of Love is service and sacrifice. Love is eternal and immortal and so are those who are employed on its behalf.

There is no greater calling than to be useful. The highest position is to be a tool. Note that all true servants of The One are at pains to say that they do nothing by themselves. This is because it is true. Some might be a little confused about Buddha in this regard. Keep in mind that Buddha is the mind and Christ is the heart. When the heart swallows the mind you have wisdom and understanding; the twin highest goalposts just below the ineffable. I take nothing away from Buddha in respect of anything I have said here. There's more to all of it than can be said and there always will be, which is why you need a teacher. You need to make the acquaintance of one connected to The One.

Many trustfunders, dilettantes and the like, travel all over the world, seeking one teacher after another. We call them guru whores. One might think they have the advantage, being either financially stable or gifted at living off of those who are but one finds the real thing based on the sincerity of their heart and that can be accomplished wherever you are. You only have to travel inwardly to make contact and I assure you that is possible and guaranteed, dependent on your enthusiasm and realization that nothing is more important and... nothing is. There is no real enjoyment or value to be found in the world, unless you know how to enjoy and measure value to begin with.

I'm not suggesting that people with money cannot make the grade; anything but. I've nothing against wealthy people or money; that's their karma and they earned it, or were cursed with it, as you prefer and as individual conditions may show. I'm just saying that you don't need it to accomplish this. Famous, wealthy and powerful people all maintain the illusion that they have something you don't. That's not so except in a certain negative context. Who is the most famous, richest and powerful of all? That would be the divine. The divine can transfer and apportion any part of itself to anyone at any time, for whatever the reason may be. Whatever it is that you think you want, there is no better font of resource than the divine. Make the understanding of this your reality. Move through your life as if the divine accompanies you everywhere you go and is alive within and without you. At some point this will become true in some indescribably remarkable ways.

Wherever you are, the highway presents itself in all directions, How can you chose a course without a guide? Isn't the best way to get anywhere, to follow someone who has been there and back?

I'll end this with a comment recently left by my good friend Homer at The Hare Krishna poem at streams of consciousness blog. I'm not saying you should become a member of this group. That may not be your path. I am not a member in the temporal sense. What I am saying is that you should see the wisdom in what follows;

Mr. Faill: If we don't make the most of this life, do we get a second chance, in another life?

Srila Prabhupada: Yes. According to your desires at the time of death, you get another body. That body is not guaranteed to be a human body, however. As I've already explained, there are 8,400,000 different forms of life. You can enter any of them, according to your mental condition at death. What we think of at the time of death depends on how we act during our life.

As long as we are in material consciousness, our actions are under the control of the material nature, which is being conducted in three modes: goodness, passion, and ignorance. These modes are like the three basic colors--yellow, red, and blue. Just as one can mix red, yellow, and blue to produce millions of colors, the modes of nature are being mixed to produce many varieties of life. To stop the repetition of birth and death in different forms of life, we must transcend the covering of material nature and come to the platform of pure consciousness. But if we do not learn the transcendental science of Krsna consciousness, then at death we must transfer to another body, either better or worse than our present one.

If we cultivate the mode of goodness, then we are promoted to the higher planetary system, where there is a better standard of life. If we cultivate the mode of passion, then we will remain at the present stage. But if out of ignorance we commit sinful activities and violate nature's laws, then we will be degraded to animal or plant life. Then again we must evolve to the human form, a process that may take millions of years.

Therefore a human being must be responsible. He must take advantage of the rare opportunity of human life by understanding his relationship with God and acting accordingly. Then he can get out of the cycle of birth and death in different forms of life and go back home, back to Godhead.

End Transmission.......


tmcfall said...

I was ruminating on this topis last night, How better to be of service; and here it is...Thank You Vis, Thank You God!
Tom in Tempe Arizona

Zoner said...

Man, I just can't get the notion that one NEEDS a guru to take root, so I'm gonna have to let this aspect simmer a bit. If one were to allow that internal wiser component to fulfill this role, yeah - I can totally see that, but if it entails following the path of another or having to wait for "help" to arrive from some other human it is gonna be a struggle to adopt this position.

I'm guessing that these individuals are not to be found in the phone book, so.....

Enduring. Trying to remain "open". Keeping the head low while trying to stay above water. The notion that one must "try" or "strive" or something just sounds like a repeated phrase from long ago;

"He is not meeting his potential"

I see where striving gets some of us. "Must have taken the wrong path".

Shouldn't there be some lights or at least a crumb or 2 to follow on the "correct" path? Oh. Not trying hard enough. Not doing it right.


Thanks for your efforts, Visible.


Anonymous said...


pax verbum

Anonymous said...

Les Visible you are a truely great teacher, you furnish the rope for others here to assend the steep cliff. May God continue to Bless you

from a remote area in Oregon

Visible said...

That is 'the internal wiser component'. Looks to me like either a contradiction of terms or a far too personal take on the actual meaning.

Modern Day Metal Making Alchemist at Work said...

Judge Viz:

While all of this wisdom has been said before by many teachers, we need to hear it again and again, refreshed in the context of the day and age. Wisdom seeps slowly into our material minds and your service to that end is a beautiful contribution to our becoming.

Better to heed wisdom willingly through the heart, than to beat our head against the granite wall of life’s experience.


Modern Day Metal Making Alchemist at Work said...


For most of this life I too was of similar mind about the need of following another to my truth. It is indeed true that one can find their way on their own through the maze of life blindfolded. The question simply becomes, do you really want to do that many hard miles? You can say okay let me do the miles, but after doing many miles, the wisdom of purchasing a map becomes clear.

We naturally transpose our limited context on that which is unlimited and with only that, woefully unequipped for the trail. In only the Alpha brain state we are totally fucked in futility to fathom the infinite from a finite perspective.



DaveR said...

Wow Zoner! Haven't you been reading the last few days about our animal helpers along the path? If you only need your "internal wiser component", then why are you here?

Gurus come and gurus go. Some are human, others not so much. I've often said that one reason for there to be really rotten people around is to teach us how not to be. Getting stabbed in the back is a lesson for sure, and don't teachers dispense lessons?

"He is not meeting his potential" is something I saw often enough on my report cards as a kid. I always wondered how they knew? How can my 2nd grade teacher make such a judgement? She can't, she just thinks she can, which is a recurring problem with a lot of people. On the other hand, "When the student is ready, the teacher will appear", and there before me in 2nd grade appeared Mrs. Whoever teaching me stuff I didn't know I needed to know. And like all good gurus (are not all matters spiritual) when it was time she disappeared!

HOWEVER!!! To all and sundry I offer this: Beware the self-appointed guru.

Anonymous said...

via Homer..

I'm not a member of the Hare Krishnas either.
Neither am I a member of the Catholic or any other Church.

Doesn't mean I or all the folks here, anyone and everyone are not worthy to, able to, allowed to and encouraged to worship, praise, meditate, contemplate Jesus, Buddha, Allah, Rama, Krishna or God by any other name.

That We Are!
Every last one of us.

I feel fairly uncomfortable at being recognized in such a way which might mislead our friends and readers to believe I am in any way anything more than a mutt, a stray, an outcast who has never had an original thought in my life.

I simply attempt to, as Les Visible Prabhu advises, hear and emulate those who DO know.

We're all worthy and invited to do our best to experience and become what can only be felt as the greatest goal of human or any other life; Love.

I'm just a neophyte who is barely able to express a little affection but I really do want to know you Lord.

DaveS said...

Wow, wow, and holy WOW!

I've sent-on many a Visible piece to friends, family and the other souls I have email addresses for... but this is the first one I've bookmarked to come back to and revisit, possibly hundreds of times.

Seriously, this Origami is the most basic, inspirational tutorial on increasing spirituality I've ever read.


Watched Between the Folds a movie about origami the other night and if you haven't seen it, I recommend it.


gurnygob said...

“Therefore a human being must be responsible. He must take advantage of the rare opportunity of human life by understanding his relationship with God and acting accordingly.”

Wonderful post Les. This piece stuck out for me, probably because this is where I fail most of the time. I forget my reason for being here.

I tend towards the one life opportunity (it has been appointed unto man to live once) but I could be wrong. Whatever the case, it is a rare opportunity indeed and this is what separates us from the other animals in that we have reached the place where we either go on to a higher degree or we go back, or we go to hell as some suggest. I don’t like the idea of hell no more than the idea of being reborn as a plant, though the plant (in Krishna thinking) does have the advantage of rebirth into human form so from that prospective it’s a no brainer, but for the time being I will stick with one life for now. The funny thing is, I don’t always act as if this were my one and only chance. I am such a loser when it comes to endurance. Yes I endure life but that’s an occupational hazard for most of us anyway so maybe there is no merit in just enduring for the sake of it or because we are too lazy to do anything about it. I have set my sights on reaching the high places so many times that I can’t remember, only to find I have slid back. Some might say I have progressed from religion but when religion is ingrained in you it becomes hard to shift. You end up thinking you have failed if you turn your back on it. With that said I will take your timely advice and set a course once more for the higher ground that is found in meditation of the heart and mind towards god. My master is Christ, I know that much, so I will put more effort in that direction.

About the angels. The light one emits can also be picked up by the not so friendly angels/spirits, so it comes as no surprise that those who set their hearts towards god will come in for some attention from these emissaries of hell and this is probably the reason most people give up. Maybe this is where endurance comes in. As I mentioned in another comment lately............

“I must endeavour to persevere”

Thanks Les.


Anonymous said...

I understand what you ment in your comment Visible to the extent my enlightenment will allow, thank you. If I may go off topic for a moment being these are the only blogs I comment on. I do quit a bit of research and I find no one talking about the shear and total corruption in the advertising industry wich I could expound on but I don't feel the need.

from a remote area of Oregon

amarynth said...

We probably don't need gurus, excepting for periods in our lives where this is called for.

We always always need teachers. Visible is one. Internal wisdom is another one. God is another one. And all of these would be ONE! It is folly to ignore the teachings that come our way - external, internal and from above. Krisnamurti said: "Truth is a Pathless Land". The others that are walking in that Land, from whichever realm, even the stones, are our teachers. It is folly to ignore such ones that come across one's path. Those are the crumbs and the stones.

katz said...

this makes me uncomfortable. people shouldn't lecture others, esp when they have their own road to walk.

I get tired of the way some people lecture others, as if they are more enlightened, or somehow higher than me.

I don't need any guru, but I do need my kitten. other than that, I'm on my own, and I know it.

gurnygob said...

To Zoner

Zoner most modern day guru's (if that’s what you’re thinking) are a dime a dozen and I wouldn't go near them with a barge pole. Like Les says, we have the example of Christ and others and as Sovereignty said, why struggle to find the way when you can just pick up a map and why beat your head against the granite wall, wailing as like a Jew for something that they were already given but rejected in favour of a worldly kingdom? You don’t have to belong to a “church” (in the human sense) to be a Christian. The real church of Christ is in the heart. Love god with all your heart and your neighbour as yourself. This is the teaching of all the great masters. I would be inclined to call you towards Christ, but you must make that decision.


Visible said...

To clear it up for those who didn't understand what I was talking about, as well as those who are ego bound, as opposed to self bound and for the clueless and tacky, all of whom are represented in the replies here and in cases where more than one apply, which was also represented; the guru is the self and none other. There is only one self and people attain to it rarely but they do and they are here to assist others in doing the same. There is no fee beyond honest effort and true aspiration. There is no bondage to a personality or need to join an organization or any other thing. If you run into that you are in the wrong place and for some this may be the wrong place too.

just me, Laurel A. said... are you doing out there this week? btw, z..... a teacher, yes, a guru, nah. if your heart is right, your steps are to learn from. how is a guru going to improve on that? carry on as you are. you are fine.

Anonymous said...

(quoted) "Many trustfunders, dilettantes and the like, travel all over the world, seeking one teacher after another. We call them guru whores."

Nice. Hey, I did that for a while. Well, I tried to, anyways.

At one time, I was really, really, faithful to one guru in full fidelity, however, so I am not sure how that works into the picture of 'guru whore'.

Yet at the same time, I can see it.


Visible said...

Potai; There was a period of time through the 70's and 80's when thousands of rich westerners descended on India,especially places like Goa. They are the people that bought Rajneesh all those Rolls Royces. They hopped from one teacher to another and compared notes the way kids used to trade baseball cards and rated the gurus according to their own arcane modalities.

The New Age followups appeared following that and they shifted to that and proceeded to make those purveyors rich. I could tell many an amusing tale but that's not for the moment.

My reason for bringing that up was merely to allude, without saying so, that there are very few to find in the outer world, especially at this time. At the same time, everyone we encounter teaches us something. We find what we bring, in any case.

The self within will call out to the self being hosted more completely in another on some occasions and on other occasions the self will come forward within due to the ministrations of guide appointed to that task. It's a seamless reality from top to bottom and there are teachers of both the dark and the light and both of a high and low order, depending on our own dominant propensities.

Antony said...

Hi Les
Been reading your blogs for quite a while now and never posted so just like to say they are appreciated. So thanks for doing them.
I like the bit about you dont realise how far up the hill you have travelled. Its a tough climb and most of the time you appear to be going nowhere. Sometimes wish i had stayed in the valley. Anyways you are soon too far up to ever go back down.
Onwards and inwards Antony Huddersfield

gurnygob said...

Les a question for you.

Les what you said in your comment.........."To clear it up for those who didn't understand what I was talking about."

Are you referring to, “the kingdom of heaven is within you?” I sometimes get mixed up with this when you say things like “the guru is the self” the reason I ask is because I was taught to die to the self, not that I am much good at that but could you clear that up for me.......please


Visible said...

Of course.

Gregory F. Fegel said...

Visible, you have written another great post.

Baktivedanta Prabhupad was far more enlightened than most of his followers, who often took ritualism to an extreme. Having been raised by Roman Catholics, many of whose rituals resemble those of Hinduism, I could see that the Hari Krishnas were bogged down in ritual the same way the RCs were. The ego attaches to the rituals, and the practitioner believes that those who do not do daily japa or Rosary are Damned. Ritual becomes a substitute for Self Realization, and the attachment to ritual can become an impediment to Self Realization. Even the Bhagavad Gita says so. One evening I had a friend braid a couple of marigolds into my hair as an offering to the Deities at the Krishna Temple. Some of the Devotees were quite offended and chastised me for trying to make myself look attractive and distracting attention away from the Deities. I might have accepted Prabhupad as my guru, but I couldn't bear the narrow-mindedness of his Devotees.

One day in the Himalayas, a couple of sadhus told me that I absolutely had to find a Guru. I told them that "God is my Guru," but they did not accept that answer. The problem is, every living guru that I've seen has been a womanizer, or more corrupt than I am. I don't think it's a good idea to surrender myself to someone who is more corrupt than I am. All of the gurus that I think I could accept are dead, like Ramana Maharshi -- which brings me back to my beloved books. In my twenties I had a vivid dream in which my father took me in a little outboard motorboat up a small tributary of the Ganges, where my father delivered me into the keeping of a couple of aged, skinny, bearded yogis with long plaited hair, who had a little wattle-and-daub thatched hut just above the beach of the river. Perhaps I should be meditating on those two dream-yogis to seek their guidance.

Recently a commenter on a Les Visible blog posted a Bible quote which stated that a spiritually-minded person should make teaching spirituality their occupation and source of livelihood, in preference to any other work. The Hindu Vedas say the same thing. I have done a lot of service for people in the form of labor, gardening, and nursing. However, I
believe that ministering to people's physical needs is a waste of time when they remain in ignorance. I now strongly believe that the most beneficial service that I can provide to humanity is to research, write, and speak about mythology and spirituality. When people tell me that I should volunteer in a soup kitchen, I say "No, if I truly want to be of service to people, I should work harder on my mythology research." I'm not very good at marketing myself, so I have yet to find a way to earn a living with my writing. But with endurance, perserverance, and faith, I will succeed -- if I live that long. If I don't succeed, when my money runs out, I'll join the ranks of the homeless, sleeping under bridges and scrounging for food. And being homeless is okay, because it's a far more noble pursuit than working for the corrupt System.

Ideally, we should all be living on peanuts, and spending most of our days in study, making music or art, meditating, keeping fit, or earnestly discussing philosophy.

Æonsince Punch said...

Aye gotcha, Les - awe, ore, oar, you godme up the creak. Goodamit, High fuel stewpit in a coolway boot silly2 (yule probably injoy the book, the realtime moofie is sooo mondaydane)

so where the Fwaseye and what the Fwashigh yighyighyigh on about?

Cleffernice is combing heart these daze. Butt evertheless, Uhm gonna half too givya a good paddlin' later, dood - you noose whathey say aboot a boodah gettin' in your way and so on and so fond

Visible said...

The good news is that there is a slim amount of entertainment value in watching incoherence and annoyance battle it out in the mental equivalent of a blown knee during an important game.

Lee said...

Okay Les, I GET the lesson this time.
This morning I intercepted a phone call from a woman invited me to church. I told her how I felt about it and went on with my rant about shallow christianity. It was a nice conversation and cheered me up a little since there was no lecture or putdown.

Now, I read Visible Origami.

If you want you say is true, I'm in big trouble. That's what I usually say when I'm convicted of my own personal sins and failures, which, I have many. I did things I should not have done, and I did not do the right things when I should have.

P.S. So sorry about the loss of Silky.

Anonymous said...

someone once wrote-it descends when something in us rises like yeast says-wake up sleeper rise from the dead an christ will touch thee...and that great commandment to love god can also be translated ''you must cause the lord your god to be loved with all your heart...etc''

forwards onwards an hopefully upwards ay?nice post and comments

Visible said...

Don't beat yourself up about it, you weren't necessarily incorrect. We always called her Lilly, The other two names were just to peoplize her.

Robin Redbreast said...

Thank you for your post - perfect timing.
I am going through a very difficult period in work at the moment - people are finding my new 'being' different to the old me, and many are pointing the finger - but from the distance, in small private discussions and it hurts that these people, who are my colleagues (and who I consider to be friends) feel unable to discuss 'their concerns' directly, honestly and openly with me. I can't do right for doing wrong....

I have been nothing but honest and open with others.

You have reminded me to rise above, and to get back to where is right - my form of meditation is in the bath, with candles, incense etc - and that is exactly what I am going to do right now.

All I can do is my best, and focus on my path, not hurting others on their journey (to wherever they are heading) whilst not hurting myself at the same time.

Thank you for your wise words, their timing, your guidance, your love and acceptance - something I have found for myself as well.

Again, so many new names appearing here, all is good - if only we look without tainted vision.
Thank you a thousand times.
Live, love, prayers and peace

Robin Redbreast said...

I love this song and words - came across it today -give it a go (sorry you have to cut and paste):

'We Are The Many'
Lyrics and Music by Makana
LLPP xxx

Modern Day Metal Making Alchemist at Work said...


"or earnestly discussing philosophy."

The philosophy discussion thing for me is only mental masterbation and a dead philosoply. Living and earnestly practicing a philosophy will lead you to the Stone and clarity of purpose.

In our native culture we see "Pipe Carriers" people who walked back into their culture 500 years and still walking backwards when at the heart of any authentic shamanic tradition, is the eternity of the instance (now factor).


Caltus86 said...

Hi Les

Thank you again for a part of you beautiful work. I was contemplating on some of the services offered and rendered by me in the past and my role forward, and then went on to read your post about the same thing. This I think is because of the great mind at work. On to Guru, coming from a Christian background I distrust certain leaders and truly strive to gain knowledge in order to find my own way. Along that journey I recently found you and others who are real teachers. Early in my life I did not understand anything about ritual, and so dislike then from my Catholic school days, but through a vision I was shown a ritual which I used daily as a token reminder of my journey, this ritual kept me steadfast from deviating and I thank the great mind for same. Thank you again Les and all the contributors on you blog that help to make this place a guiding light.

Peace, Love and Blessings

Gregory F. Fegel said...

Sovereignty: If it's not your purpose to discuss philosophy, why are you discussing it with me and others here? Are the Pipe Carriers always silent? Ramana Maharshi was silent for most of the first half of his life, but in his later years he did a lot of writing, talks, and interviews. I respect the vow of silence, but I don't see it as mandatory. Confucius said, “Without knowing the force of words, it is impossible to know men.” - Analects 11. Silence suits a hermit, but not someone who wants to teach or be taught. Les Visble's blogs are statements which he opens to discussion by hosting a comments section.

Regards, GF

Ben said...

Vis, All,

Wonderful Origami, wonderful comments. I can't help it, I'm compelled to put in some verses:

As Jesus and his disciples were on their way, he came to a village where a woman named Martha opened her home to him. She had a sister called Mary, who sat at the Lord’s feet listening to what he said. But Martha was distracted by all the preparations that had to be made. She came to him and asked, “Lord, don’t you care that my sister has left me to do the work by myself? Tell her to help me!”
“Martha, Martha,” the Lord answered, “you are worried and upset about many things, but few things are needed—or indeed only one. Mary has chosen what is better, and it will not be taken away from her.”

And here's another one... those offended by Bible verses are hereby warned to avert their eyes, as these are the words of Jesus:

"Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, and whoever wants to be first must be slave of all. For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”

Powerful stuff... and gurnygob summed it up as well:

"The real church of Christ is in the heart. Love god with all your heart and your neighbour as yourself."

bholanath said...

It's so fucking curious, hilarious actually, that people (westerners mostly) go completely nutso when you mention the word "guru" - the only associations are "charlatan" and "predator" and the like, only having to do with Rolls Royces and chasing ass. The stupid (false) religious and media programming has been spectacularly successful.
There are billions of types of gurus, and all are uniquely different. A guru is a most honorable and sacred personage and a being in form, either human or non-human, to interact with in the mode of Initiation - into another level of consciousness or experience of being in the world. The almost complete extinction of initiatory processes from "civilization" has brought humanity to its present state of gross ignorance.
There are many many true gurus existing now as in all other times, as it always has been, as well as devic allies, as Les describes, and the only difficulty is that they don't have the "appearances" that are consistent with one's expectations.
Copping out, with religious, scriptural, intellectual, egotistical, and all the newage mythological excuses, is simply laziness - how everybody in the modern civilized world rolls.
No one has to submit themselves to lying, hypocritical, charlatan predators - that's just another excuse to not allow a true teacher who may appear to one in an instant to nudge one into a deeper inquiry into your Self and the nature of your existence.
On the "pathless path", one sees what needs to be done and how and who to serve in every moment, and acts accordingly. It's not rocket surgery, but takes discipline and endurance, and perseverance, as pointed out previously many times. And obviously this can't be accomplished with mental biases and clinging to dogmas and "precious experiences" of the past. Creation, preservation, and destruction of the universe is going on a billion times a second. The only limitations are self-limitations.


Odin's Raven said...

Here's a revelation that the neocons and zionists have been plotting to get British military and political assistance in attacking Iran:

est said...

i've heard energy can not
be created nor destroyed

then how the hell did it
get there in the first place ?

kind of stuff
i think about

Visible said...

Very well said Bholanath and pretty much what I was thinking too.

katz said...

The first law of thermodynamics says that the actual amount of energy in the universe remains constant—it doesn’t change.

The second law of thermodynamics says that the amount of usable energy in any closed system (which the whole universe is) is decreasing.

Everything is tending toward disorder and the universe is running down.

Now if the overall amount of energy stays the same, but we are running out of usable energy, then what we started with was not an infinite amount.

You can’t run out of an infinite amount. This means that the universe is and always has been finite.

It could not have existed forever in the past and will not exist forever into the future.

So it must have had a beginning.

That means it must also have an end.

est said...

so i'm having a little discussion
with a thirty year friend of mine

i said

'god is everything we
can see and can't see

it has existed from
the beginning of time

and will continue
till time ends

there is nothing
god does not contain

nor does anything
exist outside of it

it's not a question
of learning something

but one of remembrance
actually forgetting things

the falsehoods we've
come to believe

we are not separate
we are pure awareness

presumably we are all in bodies
and these words are tools

to describe an understanding
it's not that we don't know

who we are - we just forgot
all of this - is to remind us'

Modern Day Metal Making Alchemist at Work said...


From my experience the so called vows of silence have more to do about the Adept recognizing the futility of conveying that which is beyond language, to those of us in the mundane states of consciousness as opposed to some vanity silence virtue.

The gulf between the finite and infinite states of consciousness is the same 3 inches measured in bandwidth from the front lobe to the rear lobe in our brain. Nothing can be said and the one option is to not say anything. Discernment is one of the last virtues we learn in 3 D and only because everyone wants to know what’s going on, philosophical indulges in communication occur.

That being said no book or philosophy discussion (earnest or otherwise) will ever produce a micromilligram of pituitary secretion, hence the need for an applied philosophy for the lotus in each of us to bloom.

I've greatly exceeded my alotted indulgence for the day.


word veri: componse

bholanath said...

As long as we're going to keep getting inundated on these blogs with twisted and plagiarized astrotheological teachings stolen from every ancient and indigenous culture on earth in the form of biblical verses and mythical parables (basically made-up shit that never happened), I'm going to point out that christianity - in ALL OF ITS FORMS - (as well as the other monotheistic blasphemies) has been the primary destroyer of most all of the living initiatory traditions, including the guru-shishya-parampara lineages which maintained wise, just, and humane true human cultures throughout the previous ages. If someone thinks that, well, they are the real, true christians, then how often do you speak out or act (or even consider for a moment) in regard to the ongoing indigenous cultural genocides transpiring everywhere on the planet with approval or silence of christians of every stripe, while living every day of your life off the fruits of massive theft and murder of gurus, shamans, teachers, renunciates, and selfless servants of humanity and the natural world? Yes, those are the ones picked out and first targeted for execution by the bringers of "good news". How often do these subjects come up in conversation with fellow "christians" or in your churches or from the "liberal" pulpits?
"How long will they kill our prophets, while we stand aside and look, some say it's just a part of it, we've got to fulfill the book.."
Well, great, now that billions of 'believers' are all locked into the armagideon meme, and we're all now subject to the self-fulfilling 'prophesy' [sick omni-suicidal fantasy], we're supposed to assume that babble-believers are going to somehow discard the built-in dominionism, exceptionalism and proselization-imperative and stand together with the rest of sentients for resisting and non-cooperating with the ongoing juggernaut of soul-rape? (At least the Great Ones remain in this dimension (and others), hidden in Shambhalic and other secret realms, remaining inaccessible and continue to make deep sacrifice and service for the benefit of Life and Mother Earth in ways we mere mortals can barely imagine. Without them we'd have been long gone, long ago.)
Just sayin...
Just wondering....

est said...


einstein explained that
matter and energy
are equivalent

and the law of entropy
presages a winding down

but just as a breath
has a point of stillness

the lungs fill
and empty

the universe breathes us
in to existence

and will draw us
back again

Anonymous said...

How fabulous for you. You've solved that which has baffled the wisest minds for ages past. My compliments.

amarynth said...

Thank-you bholanath.

I, of a lesser ability in words, stand in awe! You Guru you! I'll forever look at the word guru differently.

Pete said...

An issue for me Les is that I am completely self initiated. When you speak of needing a master or guru does such a teacher have to be in corporeal form or can one be receiving instruction at night in their etheric body while asleep? I would appreciate any input.

Smyrna said...

*cliche alert*

Seek and ye shall find. And when I say seek, I mean with every particle and essence of your being, and I mean to inwardly seek, as what you are seeking won't be found searching or by any other vicarious means. Your Guru is you. Here's the chain of command: You-'^'-You.

*cliche alert*

And when ye find ye shall be amazed.
That is your cue to start screaming out. (You should be well screaming by this point and shouldn't need reminder of this prompt.) You will be screaming out for the gushing deluge of the cosmos and the isness to stop, because you understand now; and would like the reducing valve screwed back in so you can have the universe resume feeding itself to you through an eyedropper, as Aldous Huxley mentioned, but you didn't quite grip the gist of that then, but you do now!

You may well have to scream for a minute or so, or it could be days until you hit the right note, pitch, key and/or name. When that occurs, '^' will come. (double entendre intended) Some light and sound show could ensue.

Modern Day Metal Making Alchemist at Work said...


I believe your kick ass rant just brought smile from some of the old silent elders.


Gregory F. Fegel said...

Bholanath, you wrote: "No one has to submit themselves to lying, hypocritical, charlatan predators - that's just another excuse to not allow a true teacher who may appear to one in an instant to nudge one into a deeper inquiry into your Self and the nature of your existence."

Show me a living "true teacher." I'm ready to listen and learn. I've been ready and looking for the past 42 years. So far, I haven't learned of anyone that I would "take initiation from" who isn't a "hypocritical, charlatan predator," or a practitioner of a path that I do not wish to follow. So far the Gurus I have admired are dead ones in books. Those dead Gurus and their books are great.

Here's an example of a practitioner of a path that I do not wish to follow. Prabhupada dissed Advaitists as "Mayavadis" who are on the wrong path. That includes people like Ramana Maharshi. The Advaitist/Upanishadic/Yoga tradition is what attracted me to Hinduism. I got involved with Bhakti later, but the ritual/mythological fixation of Bhakti never appealed to me -- it's too much like Christianity.

The Buddhists may have the right idea -- there's no need for a Guru, because everyone is responsible for their own Enlightenment. As you said, Bholanath, "The only limitations are self-limitations."

Gregory F. Fegel said...

Sovereignty: If all words are a waste of time, why do you indulge in them? Why not just plug into your pituitary and be content with that?

Richie (Dana) said...

Your words are always appreciated.

Ben; I am one of the "last" and never wished to be first.
There are many things on my mind, but I wish no altercations, as I have plenty.
Let us just say that I understand the truth you speak and say thanks.


Anonymous said...

"di-i-i-i-i-i-in-n-n-n-nn-n-ng-g-gggg-g-gggggg...When we hear the bell (like we do in this Origami) we practice listening to the bell...

Deeply...We go back to our breath. Listen....listen, everything. This wonderful sound brings me back to my true home.

We breathe out.....

Very enjoyable practice.

Breathing in, I know I am breathing in.

Breathing out, I know I am breathing out.



and if you like, you can smile while breathing out.

Several times.



Let us do that again.

Focus your attention on the tip of your a garden. Noticing the air coming in and the air coming out.




Breathing in, I notice my in-breath has become deep...

Breathing out, I notice that my out-breath has become slow.




So, if you feel that you enjoy your deep and slow breath, it means that you are practicing correctly.

Shall we try again?



Breathing in, I calm my body and my mind.

Breathing out, I let everything at ease.



Several times.

Breathing in, I smile. (This is loving-kindness towards oneself.)

Breathing out, I release everything.

Smile.....or (grin)....

(Thich Nhat Hahn)

Thanks Les!

Anonymous said...

The Narrow Path

The Narrow Path; most dread track!
Up? Down? ‘Tis your choice…
Fear NOT! One step at a time!

pax y'all!

pax verbum
Big on Faith / small on religion

katz said...

est~ I love the way you write, and believe I agree w most of what you think.

thanks. it's nice to recognize someone so smart.

anonymous thanks~~ you think that's good, one nite we proved the existence of god, using math theory. but,we got so stoned we forgot to write it down, and forgot it in the a.m.

you should hear us talk about string theory and alternate universes......

fun stuff (grin)

kenneth said...

how do we know what constitutes "sinful behavior"? i guess my ignorance is showing? :-)

missingarib said...

"If you lose all differentiation between yourselves and others,
fit to serve others you will be.

And when in serving others you will win success,
then shall you meet with me;

And finding me, you shall attain to Buddhahood."


do we only need to ask -?

Anonymous said...

pierre said..

mmm, I must have been analyctically retentive to date.. added to my reading list.

not so much guru wishing, but an LV reading list and brief commentary/guide in a comprehensive form would be something I would appreciate and pay for.
some things you cannot do on your own, not in one lifetime anyway. (unless you work in a bookshop for a while .. hehe )
they require guidance and directions for content that inspires and informs.
some part of me feels that I should be 'involved' in insitutionalised affairs, and that I am remiss in not getting involved with other peoples businesses. that's the main thing that shits me about 'them', they ruin the positive aspects of civilisation, everywhere, all the time, leaving people on the fringes and subject to radical and undisciplined cults.
nonetheless, the important things in life are already there in the individual's self, avoiding hazards and distractions is the thing to watch out for. plenty enough of that these days.

wv: nonsawsw . it's nonsense, I didn't see it, they switched the dummy anyway before sawing it in half. (watching Slingblade movie again tonight, mmm!).

Sooke said...

The guru Visible speaks of is the one who is enlightened.

She may still have a body but exists in and beyond all dimensions.

He is in and beyond thought.

She is in and beyond gender, description, personality, this world, all worlds.

This is Nirvana where there is no self anymore and very very few jump into this ocean (but ultimately we all will).

It takes the complete dissolution of any and every aspect of you that makes you you. You must choose to not exist!

The guru is that but cannot convey what this is like; it is a mute describing the taste of sugar to a man with no ears.

To meditate on and with such a being is what you get to do when you are ready.

Just sitting in the energy field of such a being will accelerate your spiritual evolution. You will progress in a moment what would otherwise take hundreds of lifetimes to do on your own.

So a dude in a robe who hasn't transcended his own penis doesn't really cut it now does he? (Excuse the secondary meaning).

Be pure, be humble, and you will be taken. It's guaranteed.

This will help:

Especially the audiofiles:

Sooke said...

I didn't quite "connect" in my morning meditation but I read this post in the middle of the day at work and zing! it did it for the rest of the day.
Divine and sublime.
Thank you.

Thomistic Methods said...

Thanks again Les+Co,

Trying to be useful, though not as good with words as most here:

As long as one does not understand one's own sexual nature, one will always have a blind spot.
To the ones quoting scripture(i.e. Mind-control written by perpetrators who won on the material plane((I.e. SEX)) with the aim to keep enslaved us humans) I don't see the Love in shaming people for trying to live unrepressed sexually, sometimes the comments cut so deep into my heart that I cry silent tears in pain.

Being disapproving towards sexual expression between consenting adults reveals one's own ignorance - you might as well ask me to change my skin colour. Sexuality is not an ideology that one can change from day to day.

Pointing out that the Z's have co-opted the efforts of those wanting to end the sexual repression does not make the issue any less valid. Would one say the same about racism because the anti-apartheid movement was also hijacked by the biggest racists of all.

I don't care how enlightened you think you are, and how smug you appear to be about it, but if you can be exclusive in any way, you are still deeply part of the engineered group fantasy.

Also please check out Bronte Baxter's blog- I would benefit from hearing what the other most erudite commenters think of her take on things.

I would know we have arrived when one can walk in public without having to cover one's genitals for fear of being locked up.

"I live in constant terror of not being misunderstood." - Wilde

Much Love,
Cape of Storms

Anonymous said...

I don't want to do any of that. Keep it off my wave and I'll keep it off yours. Do gooder busy bodies have it all figured but I'm still here when they leave. A big problem in America is people just can't leave other people the fuck alone, it probably isn't so bad where your at.

gurnygob said...

What bholanath said....

Bholanath I consider you a much wiser being than I and for the reason I don’t wish to engage you in any intellectual debate, so I will keep it short and simple. Could you answer me this? Is it Christ you are against or is it those who say they are followers of Christ and use his teachings for their own gain?


Visible said...

There's a new Smoking Mirrors up-

Croaking Frogs in an Endless Moaning Swamp.

o said...


Have you read the book Way of a Pilgrim? Your comment about heart meditation made me think of it. I really recommend it for you. It is about a Russian peasant, a Christian, who decides to embark on the path of constant prayer and where this takes him.

onething said...

When thinking about the way that the east and eastern religion seems to have so much more true knowledge than the west, I look for where they might be wrong, because it can't be that their systems are without grave error. Things just wouldn't work that way. We humans on this planet are in some places better and in some places worse, but none of us have got it just right.

When thinking about the utterly materialistic and worldly theology of Christianity, I think of the motives behind it and look for similar errors in the east.

For example, the desire to scare people. In the west we have hell. But in the east they are very likely engaging in the same type of pretense when they say you can be lost in the animal realms for millions of years, or that one has to wait exorbitant long times for a human birth. I haven't seen any evidence that this is true. Even though I do marvel at the deep pit of hideous karma that some people are digging for themselves and wonder what will become of them in the long run.

As for me, the Holy Spirit is my guru and has been for some 15 years. I am therefore unable to take any human for my guru, but I certainly am constantly learning and have no objection to teachers and seek kindred spirits.

Visible said...

Yes, millions of years seems to be a blind where he had other reasons for saying it, although I did hear about someone in the Buddhist tradition who had to take 500 incarnations as a fox for some unacceptable behavior; then again there are people like Bush and Rumsfields and The Rothschilds.

onething said...


I greatly appreciate your posts, but this:

"That being said no book or philosophy discussion (earnest or otherwise) will ever produce a micromilligram of pituitary secretion,"

I think is not true. You can get inspired by a book just as by a person, and the inspiration can lead to brain changes, and has done so for me.

I have always gotten high from spiritual books. And one of them changed my life.

onething said...

How fabulous for you. You've solved that which has baffled the wisest minds for ages past. My compliments."

I think you were being sarcastic, but obviously there is a missing component to the scientific knowledge you laid out earlier about entropy and useful energy. First of all, much that gets said by scientists is the best speculation of the moment, and if you notice, they revise it constantly, and second of all, there is a missing component that creates order.
The speculation I'm referring to is that the universe is running lower on useful energy. I'm pretty sure they don't know that.

I'm not disagreeing that the universe is finite, but I'm pretty sure est is on the right tract so far as it being a cycle, and in the up cycle, there increasing order.

bholanath said...

Sooke -

I don't know if those were your words or someone else's, but that was beautiful, and the essence of the matter of "guru".

Gregory -

No one can take you by the hand and lead you to a perfect guru. There's some matter of grace involved here. (Though someone once told me "go check this out".) Even the perfect guru, I think, doesn't have to be "followed" blindly in every detail of word and deed. I can only relate my own experiences of having the guru appear (in outer form) when I wasn't even searching, and my being instantaneously brought to the ground at her/his feet in awe and full knowing of the perfection of our 'relationship' in that moment, and it had nothing to do with any 'others' present, nor with any projected continuity into any future timeframe. Some paramparas remain temporally and some only within the heart. Some also demand your challenging of certain aspects of what comes up, some don't. Each situation is different. For sure, the guru enters into you and you must become 'that'.

gurnygob -

I personally do not 'believe' in the commonly accepted storyline of the character Jesus. I see it as a child-abusing story. To me it is a sick mind-fuck. I see no believable evidence of the truth of the storyline, including the Roman historians always quoted. I do see evidence of plenty of ripped-off astrotheological material and twisted Gnostic and other mystical traditions.
I have never personally encountered the 'avatar' Jesus in any form ever.
The "Christus", as described in the work of John Lash and others is something that resonates with my own mystical experiences, and I feel blessed knowing.
There is a 'controversial' Fourth Dharma in Hinduism, called Atmatusti, which refers to the individual's innate knowing of the truth and rightness of belief and practice, beyond scripture and even common custom. Maybe this is what's involved here.
The other (personal) aspect is the cellular and subtle, but clear, memories of torture and death of self and relations in multiple forms at the hands of 'christians' during inquisitions and tribal exterminations. They are wounds that perhaps never heal while in human incarnation.

I don't know.

Zoner said...

Most sincere thanks to those who have helped me understand both the words written here and my own ignorance and biases.

Yep. Guru instantly brought up an image of a shady character looking to get paid. The programming is indeed deep.

I'm guessing my endless hours spent observing and interacting with those in the animal kingdom may have been given short shrift.


Visible said...

Zoner, you're one of the more sincere and authentic people around here, I wouldn't worry about it and, speaking of authentic people let me continue cause I've got more to say.

Bholanath, you bring up and interesting point. I have also never gotten a hit from the Jesus Christ modality and that has puzzled me to be sure. Whereas, I have seen Buddhas sitting in nature; green holographic presences and I have seen Krishna and other, like Ganesh during states of heightened awareness. I have had experiences related to the Sufi teachings but that 's not my path. I've seen many an occult phenomena, also during heightened periods, everything except this Jesus character although I retain a real faith in the combination of teachings and persona which I have gleaned to my own satisfaction sans dogma and cant.

Modern Day Metal Making Alchemist at Work said...


I used to do pituitary secretion exercises daily phased breathing meditations, brain mapping, consciousness energy focus (where you place attention, energy flows, and encoded in energy is useful information) muscle forcing the spinal fluid up to the back part of my brain, pumping juice beyond the blink out threshold, and ended up scaring the shit out of my self, so I backed off for about a year and a half. These infinite void spaces (the eagle’s domain) are a lot for our little minds to handle and my sense is that it would be nice to have some travel companions on these journeys, to share notes and discuss experiences and optimizing techniques.

I’m back into the “pit space” and after so many secretions my pituitary (the lotus indeed flowers and grows) does its own thing now without me even trying. Say I’m in a squatting position working on a log with my power saw and then stand up too quickly; I can accidently overshoot the blink out dosage threshold (which can be a little technical on a steep mountain slope with a running power saw). I now have two pairs of blue jeans with the legs cut up in near misses, from this happening.

I discovered pituitary secretion capacities accidently at a North West mystery school training event, and out of 1500 people attending only one other was having similar experiences. I was having a lunch break with a fellow student telling him about my experience, flopping around on the floor like a fish on the beach, (the kundalini epileptic seizures) when he said his training partner from Florida was having the same experience. We traded working partners and after sharing notes, both of us made quick progress clarifying the technique but unfortunately I lost track of her after the event.

Delta space collapses as soon as I engage anybody in the mundane world; you immediately revert back to the Alpha state. From all of this research there seems to be an apparent need to form communities of like minded people, who can together hold the Delta state in physical 3 – D space. My understanding of where this is all leading, is that seed survival communities need to be formed in North America and Europe to bring in this new age. I dare not think that the world is counting on it, for I know full well the practical of the matter that this is going to be a very small community and the odds are overwhelming.

There are enough Vedic’s, underground Mystery Schools, wired Aboriginals left and they are carrying the burden of that responsibility.

The tomorrow quickly approaching will necessitate a whole new game with new tools. The’s, Gambles and the Thrivers, the OWS’s, Ron Pauls will not cut it, these only rehash the old moves in the old game and will be carried away in the waves.

With this in mind I put up the and put the brain mapping technique information out there. I know that I will be part of that new community and that I will survive the coming shift but right now am not willing to be instrumental in forming community, beyond what I’ve done on the blog. I’m not here to save anybody’s ass but will gladly provide information tools for anyone looking to do so.

My main focus today is on the material side of the Stone and perhaps with a few bullion bars in the lab, I will feel otherwise about the initiative of structuring the new community, facilities etc.

My feed back for what its worth, is that when we have lingered too long in the philosophical gerbil place, is that mind empiricism logic, and thoughtful decisions have been prioritized over the action dynamics of “choosing and going with the flow feelings”.

Dance would be a great way to break up this energy pattern. Les hasn’t said so but my sense is that dance work accounts for a great part of his clarity and bandwidth today (you can’t dance with your emotional armour, because it clangs). He mentioned doing daily mediations and likely has found some organic “zone” in phased breathing, providing him cosmic access beyond the normal range.



Robin Redbreast said...

Thank you Tim
You put it so eloquently :)
LLPP xxx

neal said...

No guru, no point to the heart of the matter. If that could be seen, then He is there, just a fish barely sensing the water, the heart of it.

Jesus, being erased is just like never having been anywhere but here, and wandering around, just a little lonesome for the rest.

He was all over the place, like what you swim in, not minding so much the way this gets discussed. He is my true Brother, and a promise, and a possibility, you would not believe how many that aren't dead yet are still waiting, and watching, not even looking like what is written, and sort of remembered.

That gets too deep, and is only shared when the North parts start to blow, and we share the thing itself, for survival.

It leads to art, and discussions, for the rest. Just crazy talk, and whispers. That pipe got buried 15 years ago, for now. Just a deer being hunted, with that baby one still waiting for the right delivery.

I will tell you this, those who are sort of still here talk of nothing else, but that thing we swim in that is always Him, and Her, and the rest just sort of get carried along by this, and sense movement, and think about choices.

Entropy is just machines running down, the other end of seething creation. It could seem to be a closed system, when the cosmic forest is noticed more than the doors in the trees.

That's OK, but not for much longer. There is making rules, breaking and bending, but there is and has always will be the thing itself. Then the rules are just suggestions to preserve Life, and then there is just arguments, and agreements.

Being mostly invisible and keeping to the places agreeing to that mode of being is getting easier than what is required. That's probably a sign, that's OK too, but not really.

neal said...

Sick mind fucks can feel pretty real, even after the screaming has run out of gas. Maybe way after, even to the place where these things get room to breathe. That's atemporal, and brings attention to what is happening now, and there are no excuses left, except for the tried and true. If you didn't get it, don't talk about it, just maybe be mad as hell, and don't lay down and take it anymore.

If there was a way to get there without the scars, you'd think maybe someone would remember, and draw something to make it possibly better, like that would happen without major erasure.

gurnygob said...

What bholanath said....

“I have never personally encountered the 'avatar' Jesus in any form ever.”

Bholanath, I expect that depends on where you have been looking does it not? I don’t expect to find green when I am looking for red if you get what I am saying. I, personally, have encountered Jesus because that’s who I was looking for and I expect I would find others if I looked a bit closer. Many others, not of the Christian faith have encountered Christ and have witnessed to him. How do you come to the conclusion that the words that Christ spoke are related in any way to a child-abusing story? Les you often quote the “supposed” teachings/words of Christ but I expect that depends on who is inquiring and given that Bholanath is one who you look up to, it comes as no surprise that you now mince your words. Just speaking the truth here. And for your information Les, I have found more of Christ here on your blogs, through your words, than I have found in the Catholic Church in 40 odd years. Maybe I am an exception to the rule, but I doubt that as others often express the same thing here. That is to say, you have inspired them towards their faith in Christ with the things you say.

Bholanath, I have no doubt in my heart that you are a sincer person but so am I. I have experienced christ in a most profound way. I am a bit upset with your words, both of you, but I will get over it.

In the spirit of christ I offer you my friendship now and in the future and hope that you can except me in the same manner......what say you??????


Visible said...

Gurnygob; Your dogmatic approach compromises your ability to see and reason and puts you in the position of slandering, due to not understanding what they are saying, inserting things they did not and then ignoring things they did say. I meant no injury or disrespect to Jesus Christ and that was obvious. All I said was that I had never had an experience with him like I have had with other presentations. That's the truth. That doesn't diminish Jesus Christ and he doesn't need you to defend him, like he's powerless on his own.

Looking for a fight over things that only exist in your mind is not a good representation of your belief in the Prince of Peace, Snide comments concerning my view and position in regard to Bholanath are not necessary and only reflect on you. This is one of the main problems I see about Christians. They are always looking for a fight. That's been my experience since I got here. Obviously if I quote the teachings of Jesus I have a certain degree of respect for him but I consider the Jesus most Christians believe in to be a myth, just by the way they go about representing him. A true Christian doesn't have to resort to this kind of thing. The light shines out of them. It's not blocked up and transferred to the personality of the alleged disciple

Smyrna said...

Les, in regards to your never 'gotten a hit' from Jesus quandry, may I add some thoughts pertaining to my experience. I expect nothing I write here to be anything new to you but it should be worth iterating nonetheless. I'm not always adept at transferring my concepts into the written word very well, unlike you (grin), but I will try my best here.

Firstly and obviously the 'Jesus Modality' has been FUBARed purposefully by Church and State in nations and cultures where it is the predominant 'faith'. Anybody following the path of Jesus got taken care of long ago. Cathars etc. As I said here somewhere the other day; people born, raised and conditioned into a society where the FUBAR Jesus is king have close to zero chance of coming to enlightenment or gnosis through 'Jesus' or consumating such with Jesus, because their reference point can usually only be the FUBAR Jesus. This is why one of two things, in the main, occur:

a) 'This religion/Jesus is a crock of shit, ergo there is no god.' Or,

b) 'This religion/Jesus is a crock of shit, ergo I shall seek truth elsewhere.

Those identifying with a) are fuel for the fire, and this fire needs much fuel.

Those indentifying with b) likely took the Krishna/Buddha route in their search for, or attainment to the divine.

Now, despite being raised and conditioned in a Western 'Christian' society, I had parents who were staunchly anti-religion, yet genuine agnostics. I was unencumbered with any beliefs pertaining to any representative or personifaction of the divine.

When my turn came, and it came purely through introspection, the 'who am I' etc, sans step-by-step guidance from any tradition or 'Attaining Enlightenment for Dummies', I eventually screamed 'Jesus'. (Screaming for the generic names of 'God' and 'Lord' had no effect.)

Did Jesus die and resurrect after being nailed to a life-size crucifix?(grin) Did he walk on water?
I don't know? Why is it important? Whilst an important and interesting side note, making a scene about a big CV of miracles smells like a distraction to me.

Had I have screamed 'Krishna' at that moment, I would have soon thereafter had a period of existence that involved a shaven head and tambourine playing, before extricating myself from the company of those so close yet so, so far.

The divine will show itself to you as you understand and expect it to be etc.

Jesus comes to me often as the 'differently abled' bum in the street that whispers an esoteric word.

onething said...

I am curious about what a couple of the members here really mean when they say they are Christian. The problem is not with Jesus. The problem is with Christian theology, and with the Old Testament. Christian Theology was borne out of a fierce competition and infighting among several different Christian groups culminating in the 4th century with Constantine demanding one official dogma of the faith and great advantages going to the victor church.

I thought Bholanath's earlier insight that Christianity has built in dominionism, exceptionalism and proselysation imperative was astute. It is indeed the problem. The Christian salvation theology is exclusivist, automatically leading to a disparagement of other peoples and the negation that other people have any legitimate faith or legitimately know and love the Creator, or have any wisdom worth knowing, and indeed, are going to be eternally rejected by God. Because they are going to be eternally rejected by God, why not steal their lands now? And if they are going to be eternally rejected by God, why waste the energy that compassion requires?

Why haven't more Christians noticed that Jehovah in the Old Testament is indistinguishable from the worst tyrants of history and has nothing, nothing to say and no magnanimous behavior indicating that he is a great soul let alone the God of billions of galaxies.

Jesus taught compassion, Christianity negates it.

Jesus taught against sacrifice, Christianity teaches that God requires it.

Jesus taught unlimited forgiveness, Christianity teaches that God the Father never forgives and insists upon payment of debt.

Jesus taught that salvation means being spiritually uplifted through contact with the Holy Spirit, and Christianity teaches that you will be saved for no spiritual reason at all, but because you served God's ego, and signed the right contract.

Christianity wastes people's time and worse, makes them think they finished the race when they never started.

Be a follower of Jesus. Unconditional love, forgiveness, nonjudgment, joyful understanding of a God who is "light, and in Him is no darkness at all."

gurnygob said...

Sorry Les and bholanath. You are right of course, Christ does not need me to defend him and it’s a good job too. Please except my apology. In future, I promise to be quick to listen and slow to speak.


Thomistic Methods said...

Dearest Les + Co,

Thanks for the blog and comments.

I heartily recommend Ahmed Osman's books for a brilliant comparative study of the Koran, Bible, Talmud and the Nag Hamadhi and some other of the few manuscripts that susvived censorship.

He makes a convincing case that Jesus was in fact Tutankhamen(+/- 1400 BC), that Josephus and Paul was the same person and that Judaism is an offshoot of Christianity. And that Isaac, was in fact not the son of Abraham but of the Pharao.

We are told by most organised religion that we are somehow disconnected from god.
Even the bible has Jesus quoting psalm 82 saying "Ye are gods".( It is amusing to see the translators don't capitalise.)
As long as the deepest of our needs, which I see as experiencing being part of the numinous in every way, is unsatisfied, things will not improve.

Thanks to All here.

Devil's Peak,
Cape of Storms.

Visible said...

Jesus, Gurnygob, you are a beautiful soul and no further proof of your authenticity could possibly be required.

Visible said...

A new Petri Dish is up now-

The Highway of The Thresher with the Rotating Teeth.

bholanath said...

No shit, Gurnygob -
I agree with Vis, you're a righteous brother. This is a wonderful time, and we're gonna work all of this out. No offense taken, or given.
I will be honest here in regard to something you wrote:
I, at one time, DID call out to Jesus, and nothing happened. I also ascribe no absolute proof or meaning one way or the other to how that played out. However, later in life I called out Saraswati Ma and Kali Ma at different times and was graced with their presence big time. There's no way to analyze that in an absolute way by me or anyone else, except that I have come to understand that I have had a number of lifetimes in the subcontinent where they are revered. I had clear memories and recognition of places there when I first visited, as well as a feeling of "home". Likewise, similar experiences in Indian Country. What do we know?

Anonymous said...

pierre said...

not "banging on about Jesus" is a positive attribute. (which I might have mentioned about this time last year when you reacted to a comment I put in about Jesus ...blah blah.).

wv: station. of the crossed peoples.

onething said...

Actually, Gurnygob, it would be interesting to explore some of these ideas, and did you get my book recommendation?

Erin Parsley said...

 Sovereignty, 7:13pm said...

"Dance would be a great way to break up this energy pattern. Les hasn’t said so but my sense is that dance work accounts for a great part of his clarity and bandwidth today (you can’t dance with your emotional armour, because it clangs)."

I would have to agree.  Dancing has always been my preferred form of connection/meditation/prayer.  Mental baggage cleared out through the physical-spiritual flow of movement = Heaven.



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